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Author Topic:   Being offended.
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15439
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 106 of 381 (845706)
12-19-2018 12:15 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by riVeRraT
12-18-2018 11:20 PM


Re: Respectful Offense
quote:

Paulk, you are part of the problem.

In other words it isn’t that “PC” culture has gone too far - you want to defend obvious and actual bigotry.

quote:

Your Trump quote is incomplete,

I acknowledged the half-hearted attempt to soften the message in my post.

quote:

you are fake news

You mean that I am telling truths you want suppressed.

quote:

Also, that is not all he has said about the border.

Which really doesn’t matter. The point is not about Trump’s position on the border. The point is that Trump is happy to stir up xenophobia and that many of his supporters lap it up.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by riVeRraT, posted 12-18-2018 11:20 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by riVeRraT, posted 12-21-2018 7:33 AM PaulK has responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15439
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 107 of 381 (845707)
12-19-2018 12:22 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by riVeRraT
12-18-2018 11:23 PM


Re: Respectful Offense
quote:

Actually no, both statements were equal, almost to the letter.

Really ? I had in mind Trump’s statement that there were “fine people” on both sides at Charlottesville. That’s more positive than “some, I assume, are good people” - without all the preceding negatives.

And remember that Trump applied the latter to Mexican immigrants in general. I would think that Mexican immigrants, considered as a group, would be rather better than the far right-protestors at Charlottesville.

So, which statement were you thinking of ?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by riVeRraT, posted 12-18-2018 11:23 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by riVeRraT, posted 12-21-2018 7:40 AM PaulK has responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15439
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 108 of 381 (845708)
12-19-2018 12:24 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by riVeRraT
12-18-2018 11:06 PM


quote:

I never said I told them about my God. I said I was sharing love

Got any actual examples? After all, you said it happened here.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by riVeRraT, posted 12-18-2018 11:06 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by riVeRraT, posted 12-21-2018 7:41 AM PaulK has responded

    
GDR
Member
Posts: 4983
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 109 of 381 (845712)
12-19-2018 2:26 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by riVeRraT
12-18-2018 11:27 PM


Re: Respectful Offense
riVeRrat writes:

Or that we just want to make sure the people we are going to help aren't going to kill us, either on purpose or by accident, so that we can continue to help. In order to be in a position that allows you to help, you must also take care of yourself. Jesus once knocked over a table or 2 in the temple.

Yes, Jesus knocked over a table or two in the Temple. He was protesting against the evil that had taken over what was to be the place where the Jews could meet with their God. He had the courage to go into Jerusalem knowing that crucifixion was what would happen to someone doing what He was doing. Faith accused me of projecting Jesus as a stupid wimp. When have you ever known someone with the guts that it took to go into Jerusalem doing what Jesus did, knowing that He would suffer not just death but a torturous drawn out death, and a death that would be totally humiliating. He knew that is what the those in authority would do. He did that because He believed it was the right thing to do and that He had to do it for Israel and the world. Some stupid wimp eh.

You and Faith are afraid of the one in a million more chance that one of those that come in might be a terrorist. Do you really think that is the cowardly approach that Jesus would have you take?

I'm glad that the first disciples, Paul and so many other Christians over the years didn't take that cowardly approach. The Christian faith would have been very short lived if it wasn't for the courage of the early followers of Jesus. People like you can talk a good line about your Christian beliefs but when the going gets even a little bit tough they're out the window saying that I have to be kept safe so I can do God's work. It's the old expression, "if you're goin' talk the talk you've got to walk the walk". You've got the talk but I don't see a lot of walking.


He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.

Micah 6:8


This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by riVeRraT, posted 12-18-2018 11:27 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Faith, posted 12-19-2018 4:21 AM GDR has not yet responded
 Message 116 by Faith, posted 12-19-2018 1:51 PM GDR has responded
 Message 131 by riVeRraT, posted 12-21-2018 7:44 AM GDR has not yet responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7089
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 110 of 381 (845713)
12-19-2018 3:21 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by riVeRraT
12-18-2018 11:06 PM


Rat writes:

I never said I told them about my God. I said I was sharing love.

What does sharing love mean? What did you do, grab someone by the Trumpian pussy?’

I would bet a paycheck that you have offended some people here with your posts. I bet we all have.

So?

That's my point, you can never "not offend" or be "inoffensive".

What kind of point is that? Mostly I don't offend anyone, occasionally I might offend someone. So what?

Was I not clear?

All of it, starting with 'sharing your love'. What were you doing and how were you doing it? Can you tell the difference between embarrassment, annoyance and irritation and offence?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by riVeRraT, posted 12-18-2018 11:06 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by riVeRraT, posted 12-21-2018 7:46 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 3990
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


(2)
Message 111 of 381 (845714)
12-19-2018 3:36 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by riVeRraT
12-18-2018 11:30 PM


Re: Respectful Offense
You never need to punish children when you can use negative reinforcement which gets better results.

People who punish kids do them a massive disservice.


The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53

The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286

Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134


This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by riVeRraT, posted 12-18-2018 11:30 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by riVeRraT, posted 12-21-2018 7:48 AM Larni has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 33263
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 112 of 381 (845715)
12-19-2018 4:21 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by GDR
12-19-2018 2:26 AM


Re: Respectful Offense
... Faith [is] afraid of the one in a million more chance that one of those that come in might be a terrorist.

NO


This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by GDR, posted 12-19-2018 2:26 AM GDR has not yet responded

    
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1702
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 113 of 381 (845716)
12-19-2018 5:42 AM
Reply to: Message 94 by riVeRraT
12-18-2018 11:06 PM


Was I not clear? Pretty amazing to me how many smart people there are here in these forums that can't seem to get the simplest of points. Change my mind. Tell me what is better, teaching people how not to offend, or how not to be offended. I choose the later.

Why would this be an either/or proposition? I think teaching children to avoid giving offence unnecessarily and to be thick-skinned when it comes to taking offence are both good ideas.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by riVeRraT, posted 12-18-2018 11:06 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by riVeRraT, posted 12-21-2018 7:50 AM caffeine has not yet responded

  
Stile
Member
Posts: 3847
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 1.5


(2)
Message 114 of 381 (845721)
12-19-2018 9:12 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by Faith
12-18-2018 6:05 PM


Re: Respectful Offense
Faith writes:

The point was that merely wanting a wall along our southern border got Trump and his supporters called PC names like racist and xenophobic...

Oh my dear Lord.
Not being called names!!

The tyranny!!!

Whatever shall we do???

...

Are you seriously attempting to call this a "tyrannical PC problem?"

...plus the punishment of being beaten up.

Again, you said they were beaten up for "simply being Trump's supporters."

Were the attackers yelling out "this is for not being PC!!" while beating their victims?
Or, perhaps, was the attack carried out for other reasons and some PC terms were randomly additionally tossed around here and there?

I think it's highly likely the second is closer to the truth.
People have been beating others over political issues for as long as politics has existed.
It's always wrong.
And I've never heard of it being done according to some tyrannical PC stance.

Not being willing to make a cake to celebrate a gay wedding implies the PC epithet homophobic...

It's possible, yes.
If it fits, then it's correct.
If it doesn't fit, then it's wrong.

I hardly see any tyranny here either, though.

...plus the punishment of a fine or being forced out of business.

Again, this part is just the law doing the law.

If they violated civil liberties then they should be fined or forced out of business.
If they did not, then they shouldn't be.

And the law seems to be figuring itself out fairly well along those lines.

I didn't say that PC didn't exist.
I said that it's no different from the idea of "treating others with respect" that's existed as long as "others" have existed.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Faith, posted 12-18-2018 6:05 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by riVeRraT, posted 12-21-2018 7:53 AM Stile has responded

    
Stile
Member
Posts: 3847
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 1.5


(2)
Message 115 of 381 (845722)
12-19-2018 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by riVeRraT
12-18-2018 11:46 PM


Re: No one?
riVeRraT writes:

No one has made an attempt to change my mind really. Oh well.

Why are you even expecting such a thing?

Your stance seems to be "we should teach people how not to be offended."

That seems like a very reasonable idea that's already been going on in basic education everywhere for as long as I can remember.
Why would anyone want to change it?

Have you never heard?

"Sticks and stones may break my bones but names can never hurt me."

It was true ages ago when the saying was created and it's still true today.
Of course, like any one-liner, it's only useful in certain situations when the context applies.

There are always times when we should be taught not to be offended.
And other times when we should be taught to stand up for what's right.

No one should go around always "not being offended."
There are situations where people should be offended. Like when police shoot and kill too eagerly.

No one should go around always "being offended."
There are situations where people should not be offended. Like when Muslims pray towards Mecca. (I think? I'm not very well versed in Muslim traditions.)

Always doing one or the other is bad for anyone because different situations occur every day.
Different tactics will apply to different situations.

We all need to judge for ourselves when we should be doing either.
And we all get to judge everyone else for being "correct" or "too offended" or "not offended enough."

My personal line for when to be offended is linked with hurting other people.

Does your statement or action hurt others?
If so - then I take offense according to how much hurt you're causing.

Does your statement or action describe something or only provide information?
If so - then I do not take offense.

And, of course, every individual has their own definition of "hurting others" vs. "providing information."
And we all get to judge who's reasonable vs. who's loony.

It's the same respect system for dealing with other people that's always existed. And it still works just fine.

You're basically running around the forum calling out "I think we should teach personal responsibility! Why is no one able to change my mind??!!"

Edited by Stile, : Clarifying for... wait for it... ... clarity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by riVeRraT, posted 12-18-2018 11:46 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by riVeRraT, posted 12-21-2018 7:55 AM Stile has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 33263
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 116 of 381 (845730)
12-19-2018 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by GDR
12-19-2018 2:26 AM


Re: Respectful Offense
You and Faith are afraid of the one in a million more chance that one of those that come in might be a terrorist.

Speaking for myself, this does not represent my point of view. Any Muslim could be a terrorist, and could become a terrorist at any point even if not at the moment. That's because terrorism is built into Islam. There are Syrians who are not Muslims, and it's possible to be a Muslim without accepting the parts that turn people into terrorists, but it's also possible to accept those parts at any time and become a terrorist. Because it's built into Islam. You don't say if your Syrian refugees are Muslim but since Christian Syrians weren't high on Obama's list for acceptance in the US I'd guess maybe Canada has a similar attitude, so it's a good guess yours is Muslim. They'd rather just make everybody Muslim and that just takes growing their numbers. Muslims aren't interested in assimilating in any case. They will remain separate, work to get Sharia Law in force, one way or another work to establish the Kalifa in which the whole world belongs to Allah.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by GDR, posted 12-19-2018 2:26 AM GDR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by Larni, posted 12-19-2018 2:35 PM Faith has responded
 Message 120 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-19-2018 8:04 PM Faith has responded
 Message 121 by GDR, posted 12-19-2018 8:21 PM Faith has responded

    
Larni
Member
Posts: 3990
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


(3)
Message 117 of 381 (845733)
12-19-2018 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by Faith
12-19-2018 1:51 PM


Re: Respectful Offense
Faith writes:

Any Muslim could be a terrorist, and could become a terrorist at any point even if not at the moment. That's because terrorism is built into Islam.


When I was a lad in Northern Ireland the Proddies and Chathos were always killing each other with terrorism. Can I take it that this shows that terrorism is built into Christianity?

If not, why not?


The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53

The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286

Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134


This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Faith, posted 12-19-2018 1:51 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by riVeRraT, posted 12-21-2018 7:57 AM Larni has responded
 Message 157 by Faith, posted 12-21-2018 11:56 AM Larni has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 17403
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(3)
Message 118 of 381 (845737)
12-19-2018 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by riVeRraT
12-18-2018 11:06 PM


riVeRraT writes:

Tell me what is better, teaching people how not to offend, or how not to be offended.


That's a false dichotomy. Teach both.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by riVeRraT, posted 12-18-2018 11:06 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by riVeRraT, posted 12-21-2018 7:58 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16107
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 8.0


Message 119 of 381 (845750)
12-19-2018 8:02 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by riVeRraT
12-18-2018 11:33 PM


I couldn't agree more. That's why the way I share my faith is by loving people and not talking about it unless they ask.

SO how are you offending people? Be precise.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by riVeRraT, posted 12-18-2018 11:33 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by riVeRraT, posted 12-21-2018 8:00 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16107
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 8.0


Message 120 of 381 (845751)
12-19-2018 8:04 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by Faith
12-19-2018 1:51 PM


Re: Respectful Offense
Speaking for myself, this does not represent my point of view. Any Muslim could be a terrorist, and could become a terrorist at any point even if not at the moment.

And so could everyone else. What we need to ask is how often this actually happens among refugees and how this compares to other groups such as, I dunno, conservatives.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Faith, posted 12-19-2018 1:51 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by riVeRraT, posted 12-21-2018 8:01 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded
 Message 158 by Faith, posted 12-21-2018 12:03 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
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