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Author Topic:   Tribute Thread For the Recently Raptured Faith
PaulK
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Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1174 of 1677 (845076)
12-11-2018 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1173 by Faith
12-11-2018 3:06 PM


Re: Back to The Rapture
Wrong thread.
But I will point out that End Times prophecy is a total mess. That neither the Olivet Discourse, nor Revelation have room for a pre-Tribulation Rapture, that the popularity of the idea that the Rapture is coming soon, likely on Rosh Hashanah is reason enough for preachers to talk about it - and a preacher talking about things related to Rosh Hashanah when Rosh Hashanah is approaching is to do with Rosh Hashanah approaching.
Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1173 by Faith, posted 12-11-2018 3:06 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1175 by Faith, posted 12-11-2018 3:12 PM PaulK has not replied
 Message 1176 by Faith, posted 12-11-2018 3:23 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1177 of 1677 (845082)
12-11-2018 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1176 by Faith
12-11-2018 3:23 PM


Re: Back to The Rapture
quote:
Not every Rosh Hashanah is as good a prospect for the Rapture as this last one. There were many other indications in the timing of things that pointed particularly to this one, and there won't be another Rosh Hashanah like this one for many years to come.
There were ? I don’t remember you mentioning any. I do remember seeing people predicting the Rapture every Rosh Hashanah for some years.
quote:
I don't want to go back trhough all that stuff about the Rapture but as I recall Matthew 24 does indeed have plenty of room for the Pre Trib Rapture and there are also lots of clues in Revelation as well.
No, they don’t.
quote:
Simply the fact that the Church is not mentioned in all the symbolic doings is a big clue. Instead we have the Jews, not the Church, as the Saints.
Matthew 24 doesn’t specify. The Revelation certainly mentions Christians. And the general Resurrection of Christians - which is supposed to be part of the Rapture doesn’t occur until after the Milennium.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1176 by Faith, posted 12-11-2018 3:23 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1178 by Faith, posted 12-11-2018 3:54 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1180 of 1677 (845085)
12-11-2018 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1178 by Faith
12-11-2018 3:54 PM


Re: Back to The Rapture
quote:
I didn't mention the other timing indicators others were mentioning concerning this year's Rosh Hashanah, only my own personal impressions.
I’m sure they will come up with more next year. But if those ‘timing indicators are so good why not mention them ?
quote:
No the Church is NOT mentioned in the SYMBOLIC doings in Revelation.
Really ? Because I suspect that it is.
quote:
It's the way the information is arranged in Matt 24 that indicates the Rapture as I recall and your interpretations of scripture are not mine,
No, the way the information is arranged does not indicate a pre-Tribulation Rapture in Matthew 24. And since you are a Biblical Inerrantist of course you disagree with the Bible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1178 by Faith, posted 12-11-2018 3:54 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1183 by Faith, posted 12-13-2018 6:39 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1184 of 1677 (845292)
12-14-2018 12:45 AM
Reply to: Message 1183 by Faith
12-13-2018 6:39 PM


Re: Back to The Rapture
quote:
Actually I may have mentioned them at some point, but just in passing, I don't know and I don't care. I was interested in my own personal experiences at the time.
In other words they were less important to you than a preacher talking about stuff related to Rosh Hashanah - when Rosh Hashanah is approaching. Can’t have been very good.
quote:
But as I recall, the major point was that 2018 was the 70th anniversary of the founding of the state of Israel, which occurred on May 14th, and that there were some significant number of days between May 14th and this year's Rosh Hashanah, which I can't remember but the number was thought to be important and it won't occur again for a long time, and of course the 70th anniversary won't occur again.
And why would the 70th anniversary be important? Even the Rosh Hashanah timing is dubious but you won’t find anything in prophecy that makes the 70th anniversary of the foundation of the modern state of Israel anything important.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1183 by Faith, posted 12-13-2018 6:39 PM Faith has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1291 of 1677 (846220)
12-31-2018 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1290 by GDR
12-31-2018 2:53 PM


quote:
There has to be an agency for life as we know it, whether it be intelligent or not. The laws of physics and the universe as we perceive exist. Why?
This is just a silly apologetic. For any answer you can go on asking why. And that includes a God. It might be different if you have a good reason why a God would exist, but you don’t. So the whole thing goes nowhere. It’s just a waste of time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1290 by GDR, posted 12-31-2018 2:53 PM GDR has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1335 of 1677 (846884)
01-13-2019 8:41 AM
Reply to: Message 1334 by Faith
01-13-2019 8:22 AM


Re: Abundant Evidence of God
And this is where you demonstrate your poor ability to judge arguments again.
quote:
Oh lots more than thousands of witnesses of the miracles that prove God in the Bible. The entire Israelite population was in the millions when they crossed the Red Sea on dry land and were led by the pillars of cloud and fire.
In actual reality, the internal evidence indicates that the story was written down hundreds of years after the original events. The numbers are clearly implausible. Neither external histories nor archaeology provides any real support for it.
In other words it is a legend, you have no witness evidence in there and there is no reason to believe the miracle stories.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1334 by Faith, posted 01-13-2019 8:22 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1336 by Faith, posted 01-13-2019 8:44 AM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1337 of 1677 (846887)
01-13-2019 8:54 AM
Reply to: Message 1336 by Faith
01-13-2019 8:44 AM


Re: Abundant Evidence of God
quote:
All that "evidence" of yours is bogus revisionist crap.
I admit that your lies are abundant, but they aren’t evidence of God.
Ranting and raving against the truth simply proves your irrationality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1336 by Faith, posted 01-13-2019 8:44 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1338 by Faith, posted 01-13-2019 9:04 AM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1339 of 1677 (846889)
01-13-2019 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 1338 by Faith
01-13-2019 9:04 AM


Re: Abundant Evidence of God
quote:
Your "evidence" comes from unbelieving "scholars" who had a bias against the supernatural
Ad hominem attacks do nothing to disprove the facts. It’s odd though that you think that the Bible is the creation of unbelieving "scholars" who had a bias against the supernatural. But it’s hardly the first time you’ve made claims like that.
quote:
That makes it all revisionist crap to be thrown in the trash.
If we throw the Book of Exodus in the trash as revisionist crap, where does that leave your case? Even when we talk about the historical and archaeological evidence you are going to need more than ad hominem to justify your claims.
quote:
The Bible as traditionally understood is correct
Except when you don’t like it, as we saw in the case of God hardening the Pharaoh’s heart - also in Exodus.
quote:
Moses wrote and oversaw the Torah/Penateuch and there was no gap of hundreds of years between its events and the writing since he was there during it all.
According to traditions of unknown origin which are hardly sufficient to answer the internal evidence of the books themselves.
quote:
You are the liar and the irrational ranter, both.
Well that’s another lie and a pretty irrational one since everyone can read your posts and see it’s a lie. A bit rant-ish too.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1338 by Faith, posted 01-13-2019 9:04 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1346 by Faith, posted 01-13-2019 1:41 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 1348 of 1677 (846916)
01-13-2019 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1346 by Faith
01-13-2019 1:41 PM


Re: Abundant Evidence of God
quote:
Disbelief in the supernatural is hardly a mere ad hominem in relation to "scholars" working on a book known for its supernatural content. It is a flat-out disqualification for the job
Of course it is ad hominem since it is directed against the people and not against their arguments. Moreover you have yet to provide any reason to believe that it is true or even relevant. For instance a scholar’s views on the supernatural have no bearing on the absence of useful historical markers in the text of Exodus.
quote:
The "internal evidence" you tout so highly is nothing but the subjective imaginings of the bogus "scholars."
And that is a lie.
quote:
The rest of your stuff doesn't deserve an answer.
And there we see your usual hate of the truth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1346 by Faith, posted 01-13-2019 1:41 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1349 by Faith, posted 01-13-2019 1:53 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 1351 of 1677 (846921)
01-13-2019 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 1349 by Faith
01-13-2019 1:53 PM


Re: Abundant Evidence of God
quote:
Truly Leftists and atheists must be missing some essential part of the brain.
Because lying and bullying doesn’t work on us ?
You know how much you’d whine if someone said something similar about you. Especially if it was true.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1349 by Faith, posted 01-13-2019 1:53 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1352 by Faith, posted 01-13-2019 2:16 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 1353 of 1677 (846924)
01-13-2019 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1352 by Faith
01-13-2019 2:16 PM


Re: Abundant Evidence of God
No they don’t say worse, and you provide ample justification for what is said.
The current thread being an obvious example.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1352 by Faith, posted 01-13-2019 2:16 PM Faith has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 1511 of 1677 (847276)
01-20-2019 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 1507 by Phat
01-20-2019 9:38 AM


The Resurrection
quote:
Percy, ringo, tangle and perhaps PaulK all think a similar way. They would argue that the Resurrection never happened simply because "resurrections don't happen".
I will not speak for the others but that does not represent my view.
I would argue against the Resurrection on the grounds that the evidence we have is better explained by the Resurrection being a legend rather than a genuine event.
The closest I would get to your idea is the argument that naturalistic explanations must be preferred on grounds of likelihood - resurrections are not normal events - but I think my argument is strong enough to win without that point (not to say that it is not a valid point - it is - only to say that it is not needed).
Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1507 by Phat, posted 01-20-2019 9:38 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1567 of 1677 (847410)
01-22-2019 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 1561 by Faith
01-22-2019 10:40 AM


quote:
I'm sure you'd all agree that you can't change an established scientific theory to suit yourself, so why should you think a person could change an established revelation from God to suit oneself
That’s funny since you feel free to change the Bible to suit yourself.
It’s also funny since science doesn’t require you to believe even established theories. You can’t pretend it says something other than it does, but you can disagree with it.
quote:
If Jesus rose from the dead according to the body of dogma or knowledge, and you think he didn't, you belong somewhere other than the church that affirms that he rose from the dead.
Let us note that Biblical Inerrancy is a far less important doctrine to Christianity in general than the Resurrection.
Let us also note that the use of disciplinary action to compel belief on pain of expulsion is a rather questionable idea anyway.
And also let us note that Biblical Inerrancy is easily seen to be false. Remember your last thread on the subject: Bible Inerrancy stands against all objections (which could more accurately be titled Biblical Inerrancy falls flat on its face)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1561 by Faith, posted 01-22-2019 10:40 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1570 by Faith, posted 01-22-2019 2:33 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1572 of 1677 (847433)
01-22-2019 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1570 by Faith
01-22-2019 2:33 PM


quote:
Too bad I have to keep correcting such a false accusation. No, my view of the Bible is the orthodox traditional view. I rely on orthodox traditional teachers and preachers, theologians and apologists, to keep me on track.
It certainly isn’t false.
quote:
Not if you're a scientist in that field you can't if you expect to get your work recognized
Because nobody has heard of Albert Einstein.... Seriously, it is possible to get recognition by going against established theory. You just need a very strong case. And the payoff can be really high.
More, that really only applies to strongly established theories - physicists can get papers published proposing alternatives to Dark Matter, for instance. It’s bad methodology more than unorthodox conclusions that tend to get scientists in trouble.
quote:
Of course I don't have that handicap. I feel completely free to disagree with the Theory of Evolution and Old Earthism, but just as with Biblical dogma as I've been explaining, that puts me outside the orthodox community of those who subscribe to them.
But you get in worse trouble for making false claims, employing poor reasoning and insisting that your arguments are good even when it has been shown that they are not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1570 by Faith, posted 01-22-2019 2:33 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1573 by Faith, posted 01-22-2019 2:55 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 1574 of 1677 (847437)
01-22-2019 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 1573 by Faith
01-22-2019 2:55 PM


quote:
Oh don't be such a silly pedant. Of course scientific theories can be overturned under the right circumstances, but not by the average scientist doing average work within the field
It is neither silly nor pedantic to point out that there is no analogy. A scientist is not expelled from science simply for unorthodox beliefs. There are no scientific theories that must be believed.
quote:
And of course no analogy is going to be perfect since the Bible is the only absolute inerrant truth that exists.
And there you go making false claims again. The Bible is not inerrant. Remember your utter failure to defend it ? I’ve already linked to the thread today and I’ll do it again if I must.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1573 by Faith, posted 01-22-2019 2:55 PM Faith has not replied

  
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