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Author Topic:   The Right Side of the News (formerly In the News)
JonF
Member
Posts: 5473
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 466 of 2838 (846869)
01-12-2019 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 465 by Faith
01-12-2019 4:34 PM


Re: Drones are not enough
Post those polls.

quote:
The Secure Fence Act of 2006, which was passed by a Republican Congress and signed by President George W. Bush, authorized about 700 miles of fencing along certain stretches of land between the border of the United States and Mexico.

The act also authorized the use of more vehicle barriers, checkpoints and lighting to curb illegal immigration, and the use of advanced technology such as satellites and unmanned aerial vehicles.

At the time the act was being considered, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton and Chuck Schumer were all members of the Senate. (Schumer of New York is now the Senate minority leader.)

Obama, Clinton, Schumer and 23 other Democratic senators voted in favor of the act when it passed in the Senate by a vote of 80 to 19.

Originally, the act called on the Department of Homeland Security to install at least two layers of reinforced fencing along some stretches of the border. That was amended later, however, through the Consolidated Appropriations Act of 2008, which got rid of the double-layer requirement.

Currently, 702 miles of fencing separates the United States from Mexico, according to U.S. Customs and Border Protection.

...

Trump criticized the 2006 fence as too modest during the 2016 campaign

...

Democrats normally in favor of looser immigration laws saw the Secure Fence Act of 2006 as the lesser of two evils, according to a Boston Globe report that detailed the legislative process. Around that same time, the House passed legislation that would make any undocumented immigrant a felon.

"It didn’t have anywhere near the gravity of harm," Angela Kelley, who in 2006 was the legislative director for the National Immigration Forum, told the Boston Globe. "It was hard to vote against it because who is going to vote against a secure fence? And it was benign compared with what was out there."


quote:
Although the 2006 law authorized construction of a fence, Congress initially did not fully appropriate funds for it (see authorization-appropriation process). "Congress put aside $1.4 billion for the fence, but the whole cost, including maintenance, was pegged at $50 billion over 25 years, according to analyses at the time."[10]

A 2017 GAO report noted: "According to CBP, from fiscal year 2007 through 2015, it spent approximately $2.3 billion to deploy border fencing along the southwest border, and CBP will need to spend a substantial amount to sustain these investments over their lifetimes. CBP did not provide a current life-cycle costs estimate to maintain pedestrian and vehicle fencing, however, in 2009 CBP estimated that maintaining fencing would cost more than $1 billion over 20 years."[12]



So, you posted deceptive half-truths and outright lies.

Post those polls.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 465 by Faith, posted 01-12-2019 4:34 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3708
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 467 of 2838 (846872)
01-12-2019 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 463 by DrJones*
01-12-2019 4:24 PM


Re: Drones are not enough
and where are these polls published?

Undoubtedly the same place that the nonexistent audit of Trump's inauguration committee is published.

But the safe money is that those polls she's talking about only polled Republicans but the presentation hid that fact. We've seen the White House do that before citing polls that give Trump high approval numbers, but only Republicans had been polled.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 463 by DrJones*, posted 01-12-2019 4:24 PM DrJones* has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 468 by JonF, posted 01-12-2019 7:43 PM dwise1 has not yet responded
 Message 469 by Faith, posted 01-13-2019 7:32 AM dwise1 has responded

    
JonF
Member
Posts: 5473
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 468 of 2838 (846873)
01-12-2019 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 467 by dwise1
01-12-2019 6:49 PM


Re: Drones are not enough
Or slightly leading quesstions:

"Are you in favor of building a wall to stop illegal gang member immigrants from raping your daughter and slicing your mother's throat in front of you?"


This message is a reply to:
 Message 467 by dwise1, posted 01-12-2019 6:49 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32918
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 469 of 2838 (846878)
01-13-2019 7:32 AM
Reply to: Message 467 by dwise1
01-12-2019 6:49 PM


Re: Drones are not enough
The Leftist media are the champs when it comes to fake polls.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 467 by dwise1, posted 01-12-2019 6:49 PM dwise1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 471 by JonF, posted 01-13-2019 9:37 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 479 by Percy, posted 01-13-2019 11:18 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 481 by dwise1, posted 01-13-2019 12:32 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32918
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 470 of 2838 (846882)
01-13-2019 7:59 AM


The Obama House Wall
Percy posted pictures of the Obama house on the Trump Bashing Thread (Message 2673) on which I am forbidden to post, before the wall went up, using them to say Trump lied about there being a wall around it. Typical. I don't have the ability to track down all the anti-Trump lies here, wish I did, but at least I found this one.

Here are some pictures of the wall going up: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/...s-new-Washington-DC-home.html

Gosh it's only eight feet high, not ten. Wow what a whopper of a lie Trump told about that! Impeach him.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 472 by JonF, posted 01-13-2019 9:41 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 475 by NosyNed, posted 01-13-2019 10:48 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 480 by Percy, posted 01-13-2019 11:45 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
JonF
Member
Posts: 5473
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 471 of 2838 (846892)
01-13-2019 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 469 by Faith
01-13-2019 7:32 AM


Re: Drones are not enough
Thanks for admitting you lied about the polls showing the American people want the wall.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 469 by Faith, posted 01-13-2019 7:32 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 5473
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 472 of 2838 (846893)
01-13-2019 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 470 by Faith
01-13-2019 7:59 AM


Re: The Obama House Wall
Trump said a "ten foot wall". That isn't ten feet. Nor is it in any way comparable to Trump's wall.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 470 by Faith, posted 01-13-2019 7:59 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 473 of 2838 (846896)
01-13-2019 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 452 by Faith
01-11-2019 6:34 PM


Re: More Fake News from Fox
Faith writes:

What a stupid idea that drones would be an effective means of border security. All they can do is watch the aliens running across the border, they can't stop them, unless you want them equipped with guns or tear gas or something, they can't arrest them, they can't send them home.

One has to almost admire the courage it must take to parade one's ignorance so publicly. The drones are observational. DWise1 explains this in Message 458. I mentioned them because they have only become a mature technology sometime over the past decade or so.

Trump wants all the technology and facilities plus the wall. The wall is essential. Without a barrier the whole border security enterprise is a lost cause.

Trump has been all over the place about what he wants. He keeps bouncing around between "concrete wall", "steel slat wall", and "border security." His aides keep contradicting him, too. First Trump said it would be a "steel slat wall", but when departed Chief of Staff John Kelly said that pretty early on it stopped being a concrete wall in internal discussions Trump contradicted him in tweets:

quote:
An all concrete Wall was NEVER ABANDONED, as has been reported by the media...The wall is the wall, it has never changed or evolved since the first day I conceived it.

Then a short while later he was back to a "steel slat wall" again, which have been shown to be easily breached using widely available tools like saws:

This is the right time to again ask how such a wall could prevent drugs and all kinds of contraband from being passed through?

We do need border security, and different approaches are called for depending upon local geography. Walls have pretty much been built in most places where they make sense, and even in places where they don't make sense. The House has requested that Trump submit a plan for how he will spend the money to improve border security. He hasn't done so yet, and probably never will.

Both Schumer and Hillary specifically asked for a barrier, a lot more recently than 1995. You are right, I'm giving no references and won't. I hear these things on the radio and you either take my word for it or you don't and I don't care what you do with it.

You're wrong yet again. That you are wrong so often, almost all the time, is why nobody here believes anything you say. That you never fact check what you say is why you are wrong so often. Check out Did Democrats reverse border wall position after Donald Trump was elected?.

Trump did not lie,...

Trump is a pathological liar. He lies constantly about everything. President Trump has made 7,645 false or misleading claims over 710 days.

...you are lying about Trump just as all the Leftist media do every hour of every day.

Well, if I'm lying about Trump then support your claim. You said that "the experts and the people most involved with border problems favor a wall." I said that's not true. Try this on for size: What Border Agents Say They Want (It’s Not a Wall):

quote:
President Trump has called for a wall along the border with Mexico to stop undocumented immigrants and drugs from entering the United States. But Border Patrol agents on the front lines say they need more technology and additional personnel to curb the illegal traffic, according to a report released on Thursday by Democrats on the Senate Homeland Security Committee.

Moving on:

Pelosi and Schumer lied about Trump "having a temper tantrum" just because the Left can't stop its nasty snarky lying they hate the man so deeply and irrationally, and the media ate it up.

What do you call it when someone slams the table and walks out on a meeting after just a minute or two? "Temper tantrum" seems pretty accurate. Trump also lies about his skill as a dealmaker. That meeting was a great example of Trump's non-existent negotiating skills where he says in effect, "Give me a wall or else. No? Okay, I'm going keep the government shut down and I'm outta here." "Art of the Deal"? More like "Plan for a Scam".

He was completely calm and collected,...

You were there?

...just as he was in his really well done speech from the Oval Office.

The only performance worse than Trump's speech was the Pelosi/Shermer stiffly delivered response in an empty echoing hallway behind a single podium. No one from either party did anything that was "really well done" that night.

And a White House source says that speech put Trump over the top in approval ratings.

This seems very unlikely. There hasn't yet been a post-speech poll, so we'll have to wait and see.

Of course we haven't been hearing any poll information except from such an inside source because it really was a great speech and the majority approved of it.

Do you even realize that without polling information you couldn't possibly know that a majority approved Trump's speech? It's very unlikely it proved helpful to Trump as it was full of lies and false scaremongering.

It is perhaps a bit surprising that someone hasn't produced a bogus poll showing majority disapproval.

The latest Reuters/Ipsos poll, released just before Trump's speech and using polling data from January 1-7, "found that 51 percent of adults believe Trump 'deserves most of the blame' for the shutdown, which entered its 18th day on Tuesday. That is up 4 percentage points from a similar poll that ran from Dec. 21 to 25." (from A growing number of Americans blame Trump for shutdown: Reuters-Ipsos poll)

Stop reading the Leftist press, it's poisoning your mind. To claim that reading the occasional Fox News report or other "conservative" report gives you the whole picture is self-delusion. Spend some time with the REAL Right, the talk shows I've mentioned. Levin in particular is a reliable researcher.

I'm talking about news. I don't get my news from partisan political commentators like Mark Levin.

Ugh, you are so deluded I can't stand reading your stuff.

You have managed to make it through yet another post without saying almost anything true, let alone providing any objective support for anything you say. You're still in your Trumpian echo chamber of lies.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 452 by Faith, posted 01-11-2019 6:34 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 482 by Faith, posted 01-13-2019 2:07 PM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 474 of 2838 (846899)
01-13-2019 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 459 by Faith
01-12-2019 3:58 PM


Re: Drones are not enough
Faith writes:

I already said drones are part of the package Trump wants in place,...

What a liar you are! The only thing you said about drones prior to this was in Message 452:

Faith in Message 452 writes:

What a stupid idea that drones would be an effective means of border security. All they can do is watch the aliens running across the border, they can't stop them, unless you want them equipped with guns or tear gas or something, they can't arrest them, they can't send them home.

Moving on:

The money for the wall would be a tenth of a tenth of a tenth of a percent of what we spend on dealing with illegals now.

What a math challenged individual you are! $5.7 billion is a tenth of a tenth of a tenth of $5.7 trillion. We are not spending anywhere near that amount of money on border security now. The total budget for all border security related functions appears to be around $50 billion annually. You're off by a factor of about a hundred. The $5.7 billion dollar request for an ineffective wall is more than 10% of the current annual budget.

The Democrats were all for a physical barrier in 2006 and recorded on other occasions as well.

That was for a fence in 2006 (Secure Fence Act of 2006), but the consensus, both among Americans in general and among the experts on border security, is that walls are not a solution for every border situation, or even most border situation, or even some border situations. And most illegal immigrants arrived by overstaying visas, not by an illegal border crossing.

Of course it never happened,...

Are you daft? Most of it was built, this is from the above link about the Secure Fence Act:

quote:
By May 2011, DHS reported completing 649 miles of fencing (99.5% of the 652 miles planned). The barrier was made up of 299 miles of vehicle barriers and 350 miles of pedestrian fence. The fencing includes a steel fence (varying in height between 18 and 26 feet) that divides the border towns of Nogales, Arizona in the U.S. and Nogales, Sonora in Mexico. A 2016 report by the Government Accountability Office confirmed that the government had completed the fence by 2015. A 2017 GAO report noted: "In addition to the 654 miles of primary fencing, CBP has also deployed additional layers of pedestrian fencing behind the primary border fencing, including 37 miles of secondary fencing and 14 miles of tertiary fencing."

Moving on:

He [Trump] on the other hand DOES want it and knows the majority of Americans want it...

The most recent polling available indicates that most Americans do not want more wall.

...and he is doing what he should do as President, trying to protect American citizens.

Trump is pandering to his minority base. As president (lowercase) he seems to actually represent only about a third of the American people.

It's the Anti American Left that cares only for their own power who are obstructing him in doing his duty.

Those who oppose Trump are all that is standing in the way of authoritarian rule.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Fix dBCode.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 459 by Faith, posted 01-12-2019 3:58 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8860
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 475 of 2838 (846900)
01-13-2019 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 470 by Faith
01-13-2019 7:59 AM


Re: The Obama House Wall
Looks like a wall to me. 10 or 8 feet it looks to me that Trump didn't lie.

OMG! Trump didn't lie!!!!!! Is there room for a mark on that side of the ledger?

So the pictures showing the home without a wall were fake news? Taken sometime long in the past?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 470 by Faith, posted 01-13-2019 7:59 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 476 of 2838 (846901)
01-13-2019 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 460 by Faith
01-12-2019 4:17 PM


Re: Making America Great and Good Again
Faith writes:

It's the Congress that is keeping the government shut by their refusal to do their duty and fund the wall that even they said in the past is needed. This is just partisan political obstructionism on their part.

This is Trump holding a third of the government hostage so he can fulfill a campaign promise. The reason he's doing it now instead of when Republicans controlled congress is because he thinks he can blame the Democrats now that they control the House.

But Americans aren't blind or stupid. They understand that building a wall has nothing to do with funding the government by raising the debt limit. They can see that McConnell in the Senate is refusing to consider Republican bills for funding the government that were proposed while Republicans still controlled the House. It is obvious to them that Trump is stubbornly refusing to separate two issues that never should have been combined in the first place.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 460 by Faith, posted 01-12-2019 4:17 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 477 of 2838 (846903)
01-13-2019 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 462 by Faith
01-12-2019 4:19 PM


Re: Drones are not enough
Faith writes:

Polls you'll never hear about show clearly that a majority of Americans want a wall.

DrJones* asked to see these polls in Message 463.

Crickets.

JonF asked to see these polls in Message 464.

Crickets.

I guess we can't call you a liar about this because you said we'll never hear about these polls, and apparently we never will. But until you produce them we'll just have to assume they don't exist.

Oh and Hillary is on record asking for a barrier at our southern border and carrying on at some length about why we need it in terms very reminiscent of Trump's statements. If you can pull yourself out of the Leftist mire that's sucking you down and go listen to any of the pundits I've been referring to I'm sure you'll hear her very own voice saying so. As well as Schumer and Pelosi and Obama and others.

Everyone from those on the right to those on the left have been concerned about border security for a long while. Democrats have been clearly stating that they remain concerned about improving border security, but that more wall is a woefully suboptimal way of achieving it.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 462 by Faith, posted 01-12-2019 4:19 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 478 of 2838 (846904)
01-13-2019 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 465 by Faith
01-12-2019 4:34 PM


Re: Drones are not enough
Faith writes:

No, the Democrats appropriated a lot more than five billion for a BARRIER in the past. Find it for yourself. Their own voices can be heard saying that's what they wanted before Trump wanted it. All you hear is Leftist propaganda that denies this reality.

Assuming you're still talking about the Secure Fence Act of 2006:

quote:
Although the 2006 law authorized construction of a fence, Congress initially did not fully appropriate funds for it (see authorization-appropriation process). "Congress put aside $1.4 billion for the fence, but the whole cost, including maintenance, was pegged at $50 billion over 25 years, according to analyses at the time."

A 2017 GAO report noted: "According to CBP, from fiscal year 2007 through 2015, it spent approximately $2.3 billion to deploy border fencing along the southwest border, and CBP will need to spend a substantial amount to sustain these investments over their lifetimes. CBP did not provide a current life-cycle costs estimate to maintain pedestrian and vehicle fencing, however, in 2009 CBP estimated that maintaining fencing would cost more than $1 billion over 20 years."


So apparently you're wrong yet again, this time about the Democrats appropriating "a lot more than five billion for a BARRIER in the past."

I'm sure you are a lot better able to do the research than I am.

A child of six is a lot better at research than you are, simply because you don't do any. You just listen to the right-wing opinion echo chamber.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 465 by Faith, posted 01-12-2019 4:34 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 479 of 2838 (846905)
01-13-2019 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 469 by Faith
01-13-2019 7:32 AM


Re: Drones are not enough
Faith writes:

The Leftist media are the champs when it comes to fake polls.

A reasonable person would conclude that your inability to produce the polls showing that most Americans favor a wall means you were making it up, often known as lying.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 469 by Faith, posted 01-13-2019 7:32 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18842
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 480 of 2838 (846906)
01-13-2019 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 470 by Faith
01-13-2019 7:59 AM


Re: The Obama House Wall
Faith writes:

Percy posted pictures of the Obama house on the Trump Bashing Thread (Message 2673) on which I am forbidden to post,...

Gee, I wonder why that would be. How many one-liner posts do you have in this thread? How many times have you refused to provide any support for the things you make up?

...before the wall went up, using them to say Trump lied about there being a wall around it. Typical. I don't have the ability to track down all the anti-Trump lies here, wish I did, but at least I found this one.
Here are some pictures of the wall going up: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/...s-new-Washington-DC-home.html

Gosh it's only eight feet high, not ten. Wow what a whopper of a lie Trump told about that! Impeach him.

The parking lot was already fenced when they bought the house. The shack is new and is for the security detail. I posted a picture of that exact same fenced parking lot in the very post you referenced, here it is again:

And here is the picture of the front of the actual house as movers carry Obama possessions into the house - notice, no wall:

They likely installed fencing between the brick pillars they added (they're covered by plastic wrapping in this image), but I can't find an image of that.

Don't you think the requirements of security for the Obama residence were specified by the Secret Service rather than the Obamas? Don't you think Trump knows this, given that all his movements are now controlled by the Secret Service?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 470 by Faith, posted 01-13-2019 7:59 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
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