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Author Topic:   A Way to Think About Free Will and God: Open Theism
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12787
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 362 of 378 (846891)
01-13-2019 9:32 AM
Reply to: Message 342 by Percy
01-07-2019 7:40 PM


The Reality Of Belief
Percy,to GDR writes:

Why is it not enough for you just to have faith in your beliefs? Why this additional faith that your beliefs are evidenced? How, in any rational way, does faith that there's evidence lead to conclusions of fact like historicity?

I've been thinking about our (EvC) collective group of conversations---debates---passionate discussions---regarding faith, belief, and the concept of evidence. ringo challenged me to begin compiling any evidence that I could find regarding the existence of God, the divinity of Jesus, or proof of the truthfulness of the Bible. So I went searching hither and yon...through the virtual corridors of the internet, writers, and teachers whom I respected, and most apologetic defenses. I realized that I couldn't find anything that was strong enough to use..(never say never, but so far I have nothing) and as this realization dawned on me, I contemplated the purpose of my argument, as well as the essence of what I wanted to say.

So it became apparent that what I really wanted---the point that I really wanted to get across here at EvC, was that I was not impressed with attempting to teach that God is fiction or that the God of the Bible was an unlikeable character whom nobody best believe in anyway. Trying to fight for the belief to be evidentially true seemed to be (seems to be) impossible. You might suggest that my response at this moment is an attempt to *double down* and I suppose in a way it is----largely because I not only have a lot of my own emotional development tied into the belief...but because I feel that the message that I see being written of here at EvC is attempting to lead people into scientific truth and dismissing all belief as needless superstition.

Does that make any sense?

The point that I now am trying to argue is that people should have belief and that it helps rather than harms them.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 342 by Percy, posted 01-07-2019 7:40 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 369 by Percy, posted 01-13-2019 8:25 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12787
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 366 of 378 (846933)
01-13-2019 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 363 by ringo
01-13-2019 1:13 PM


Re: Calling evil good or good evil.
Actually it depends which translation you use.
John 20:19-20 writes:

On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 20 After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.
(from New International Version)


The inference is that Jesus somehow got in the room despite the locked doors.
Do you see any other meaning?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 363 by ringo, posted 01-13-2019 1:13 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 367 by ringo, posted 01-13-2019 4:08 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12787
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 370 of 378 (846956)
01-14-2019 1:47 AM
Reply to: Message 369 by Percy
01-13-2019 8:25 PM


Re: The Reality Of Belief
I was curious, so I watched the episode on CBS all access. A cute and refreshing show...I think I like Young Sheldon better than Big Bang Sheldon.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 369 by Percy, posted 01-13-2019 8:25 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12787
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 371 of 378 (846965)
01-14-2019 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 367 by ringo
01-13-2019 4:08 PM


Re: Calling evil good or good evil.
So Jesus just suddenly arrived fashionably late? The only reason you reject the walked through walls argument is because you limit the stories to what is evidenced in reality. The whole point of some of the stories is to emphasize Jesus heightened abilities.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 367 by ringo, posted 01-13-2019 4:08 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 373 by ringo, posted 01-14-2019 10:54 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12787
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 375 of 378 (859785)
08-03-2019 1:20 AM


The Problem Of Evil: Modern Day Star Wars Galactic Battle
This topic is a continuation of our philosophical discussions on the rationality (or irrationality) of Biblical Mythos. It is a direct quote from Open Theist Dr.Gregory Boyd in his ReNew Blog where he has a lengthy post which I will quote large portions of here to get this topic off of the ground.
quote:
Satan and the Corruption of Nature: Seven Arguments

Man…trusted God was love indeed
And love Creation’s final law –
Tho’ Nature, red in tooth and claw
With ravine, shrek’d against his creed”

—Tennyson, In Memoriam

Tennyson nailed it. We trust that God is love, but we also believe that God is the Creator of nature, and nature simply does not seem to point to a God of love. Parasites, viruses, bacteria, diseases and cancer kill millions and torment millions more, humans and animals alike. Earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis, mudslides and volcanoes do the same. And the animal kingdom is, as Tennyson said, “red in tooth and claw.” (So is the human kingdom for that matter).
The creation looks almost as much like it was created by a cosmic predator (I Pet 5:8) as it does like it was created by an all loving, peaceful, benevolent Creator. There seems to be a “Lucifer Principle” at work in the world, as Howard Bloom noted. “Nature does not abhor evil,” he says. “[S]he embraces it.” (The Lucifer Principle, Atlantic Monthly Press, 1995).

This is the problem of “natural” evil, and it’s arguably the most formidable objection that can be raised against the belief in an all-powerful, all good God. (I shall put “natural” in quotes when referring to “natural” evil to signify that I don’t believe there’s anything “natural” about it.) Evil that humans inflict on one another can be explained by appealing to free will. But how are we to explain evils where there is no human agent responsible?


You can read this essay in full here:
Satan and the Corruption of Nature: Seven Arguments

I invite science based arguments, philosophical arguments, and faith based arguments.

I recommend watching the You Tube clip as well. That is Dr.Boyd.

Whats funny is that the right Wing Christians label Dr.Boyd as a basic heretic, but I applaud some of his ideas.

Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


Replies to this message:
 Message 376 by PaulK, posted 08-03-2019 4:55 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded
 Message 377 by AZPaul3, posted 08-03-2019 5:20 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
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