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Author | Topic: Tribute Thread For the Recently Raptured Faith | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Interesting! I watched this video of him and found that he also had sound teaching in the tradition of Biblical Christianity.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
Phat writes: Getting back to the standards....it seems clear that Heaven and free will do not go together. I don't know about that. I can imagine many versions of Heaven that work quite well with free will - and a loving, all powerful rule-making God.But I agree that it seems clear that the idea of Heaven as described here - where everyone does what God wants all the time - and free will do not go together. Otherwise, not all of the saints would sing praises for eternity. jar used to joking say that he could imagine no worse hell than a heaven where people did nothing but grovel and sing exultations 24/7! Well, I could imagine many worse hells.But this certainly does seem to make the grade of "a" hell. Have you ever been bored in this temporary, mortal life?How long do you think it will take for you to get bored if you have all of eternity of only doing one thing? Remember this thread? Eternal Life (thanks, but no thanks)
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined: |
Phat writes: There is actually such a song? No, I don't think so.I just thought Faith was speaking about fanciful, foolish, silly things - so I decided to play along.
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Chapter and verse?
Scripture says we can even control prophecy.... Faith writes:
There's a difference. Speaking in tongues is supposedly the Holy Spirit speaking directly, using a person's voice, in a language that that person doesn't understand. A prophet, on the other hand, is relaying a message in his own words in a language that he and everybody else understands. Two thoroughly different methods of communication, albeit with the same source. ... and prophecy is given by the Holy Spirit so you are wrong that we can't control His gifts.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Bingo. Many believers have a lot invested in their belief. For them, even if God did not exist it would be necessary to make One up.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 3.8 |
Hi Faith, hope you are well.
What a coincidence then, since there was obviously no stage trick that Phat experienced. This may seem obvious to you, despite your not having been there, but it is far from obvious to me.
I also heard a chipmunky voice once, commenting on my belief in Jesus Christ, but it didn't have an echoing quality. It sounded like it came from the air a few feet from me. The echoing quality seems to be a feature of the "dual voice" effect. What you describe there is something else entirely. It sounds indistinguishable from simple voice-throwing.
Another time I heard a deeper voice that did echo, like it was inside a steel drum. The "voice from inside a box" trick is yet another well-worn ventriloquist's trick. Or perhaps you heard these voices whilst alone, you don't say. If that is the case...
I'm sure nobody else would have heard these voices, that I was hearing them with a spiritual faculty and not my physical ears, I'm tempted to agree, sort of. Mutate and SurviveOn two occasions I have been asked, — "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" ... I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. - Charles Babbage
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Check out Quora
I do not believe that I am inventing Him, of course.jar would argue that inventing Him is all that humans can do. You seem to think that doing what the message tells us is enough---that we should simply get on with our finite lives, do as much good as possible, and trash religion. I won't say that I would do it as you do it...but I can respect your philosophy. Why do you think that *we* need God? Do you wish that He existed, and, if so, what attributes would you imagine from Him? We have discussed before that He has an obligation to prevent any evil that He foreknows...but play devils advocate a minute and come up with a reason for Him not to intervene. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
We trash religion like we trash junk mail. If it didn't keep coming to our door, we wouldn't need to trash it.
...and trash religion. Phat writes:
Why do you think that some of *us* need heroin?
Why do you think that *we* need God? Phat writes:
Suppose you see a small child about to be run over by a car. All you have to do is pull her out of the way, with no risk to yourself. We have discussed before that He has an obligation to prevent any evil that He foreknows...but play devils advocate a minute and come up with a reason for Him not to intervene. Now YOU play devil's advocate. Come up with a reason for YOU not to intervene.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Come up with a reason for YOU not to intervene. Because I can't simply magically direct people, objects, cars, and babies as if humanity were my puppets. Oh, I suppose technically I could...but it won't be in any way the world as reality knows it now. Care to argue with me and sue me for negligence? You must realize that simply saving every baby that wanders into dangers path is not my job. For that, you need a genie.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
In the scenario, you can. It's just a simple grab and pull, no magic required. Because I can't simply magically direct people, objects, cars, and babies as if humanity were my puppets. Same for God. He CAN magically direct people, objects, cars, and babies as if humanity were His puppets. Why wouldn't YOU act?
Phat writes:
I definitely would.
Care to argue with me and sue me for negligence? Phat writes:
Yes, it definitely is. You are your brother's keeper.
You must realize that simply saving every baby that wanders into dangers path is not my job. Phat writes:
No, you need a human. For that, you need a genie.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
On the one hand you are saying that only humans are needed. No God required.
On the other, you are saying that if God exists he has the responsibility to act as if He were human. Jesus is Gods human component. And Jesus is not present bodily...unless you argue that we are His body. In which case, there is no magic involved at yanking every baby out of harm's way. there is only the message and we humans. So it seems you have steered me into agreeing with you that God is not necessary. You mentioned heroin, however. For me, the security of God is a bit like insurance. If I am to be honest, most of my interaction is with humanity. I talk to Him but never hear His reply except as an inner voice that arguably could be my own conscience. In a way, I feel that having these conversations with you involves Him in some way...even though you don't believe in Him the same way that I do.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
No I'm not. I'm saying that humans are all there is - because God, if He exists at all, isn't doing anything.
On the one hand you are saying that only humans are needed. Phat writes:
You're over-thinking. I said that YOU, in a situation in which you can save a human life with no risk to yourself, ARE obligated to act. That's as close to an absolute as you're ever likely to hear from me. It's baffling that you would even question the necessity for you to act. Jesus is Gods human component. And Jesus is not present bodily...unless you argue that we are His body. In which case, there is no magic involved at yanking every baby out of harm's way. And I'm asking, why would God have less responsibility?And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
And I'm asking, why would God have less responsibility? Problem is, He expects us to do everything. Im still praying that He will grab the back of the rope and help us in this tug of war with mediocrity.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
It's baffling that you would even question the necessity for you to act. I'm just overwhelmed with the responsibility. It leaves little time for relaxation, fun, and recreation in my life. Why should I spend every waking moment working without pay for a Mob Boss who won't put His weight into the situation? (And as I type these words, I realize how I have come to expect favor and blessings yet shirk responsibility. These talks are not always comfortable.)Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
So what's He good for? Problem is, He expects us to do everything.And our geese will blot out the sun.
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