Tribute Thread For the Recently Raptured Faith

The main difference between the jesus saga and other myths is that people *wink wink, nudge nudge* know that the other ones are myths yet go along with them anyway. While some treat the Jesus saga the same way, many do not honestly believe that it is a myth. And many of them have some sort of subjective "evidence" such as someone they knew that was healed, or some miraculous event that happened to either themselves personally or to others whom they know.
Many believers have a lot invested in their belief. For them, even if God did not exist it would be necessary to make One up. What's so childish about it? And why does your tone nearly suggest anger over the whole affair? By and large, today's religion never hurts anyone. Perhaps a few dozen people blow themselves (and others) up every year, but this arguably could occur in a purely secular world as well.IIRC, the last time you showed this much anger towards me was when I was listening to ICANT. He is on sabbatical (or a fast from social media, I believe) and hopefully is doing something useful for others. But again I ask: Why does this belief stuff make you angry? Were you ever harmed by religion personally?

Interesting! I watched this video of him and found that he also had sound teaching in the tradition of Biblical Christianity.

Check out QuoraI do not believe that I am inventing Him, of course.
jar would argue that inventing Him is all that humans can do.
You seem to think that doing what the message tells us is enough---that we should simply get on with our finite lives, do as much good as possible, and trash religion.I won't say that I would do it as you do it...but I can respect your philosophy.Why do you think that *we* need God? Do you wish that He existed, and, if so, what attributes would you imagine from Him?We have discussed before that He has an obligation to prevent any evil that He foreknows...but play devils advocate a minute and come up with a reason for Him not to intervene.

Because I can't simply magically direct people, objects, cars, and babies as if humanity were my puppets.Oh, I suppose technically I could...but it won't be in any way the world as reality knows it now. Care to argue with me and sue me for negligence? You must realize that simply saving every baby that wanders into dangers path is not my job. For that, you need a genie.

On the one hand you are saying that only humans are needed. No God required.On the other, you are saying that if God exists he has the responsibility to act as if He were human. Jesus is Gods human component. And Jesus is not present bodily...unless you argue that we are His body. In which case, there is no magic involved at yanking every baby out of harm's way. there is only the message and we humans.So it seems you have steered me into agreeing with you that God is not necessary. You mentioned heroin, however. For me, the security of God is a bit like insurance. If I am to be honest, most of my interaction is with humanity. I talk to Him but never hear His reply except as an inner voice that arguably could be my own conscience. In a way, I feel that having these conversations with you involves Him in some way...even though you don't believe in Him the same way that I do.

Problem is, He expects us to do everything. Im still praying that He will grab the back of the rope and help us in this tug of war with mediocrity.

I'm just overwhelmed with the responsibility. It leaves little time for relaxation, fun, and recreation in my life. Why should I spend every waking moment working without pay for a Mob Boss who won't put His weight into the situation? (And as I type these words, I realize how I have come to expect favor and blessings yet shirk responsibility. These talks are not always comfortable.)

See if this link works for you. Remember my story about me and my 3 friends? This is one of them now...his first sermon.
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I ordered two books on Amazon, in the tradition of looking at both sides of an issue. I read a lot of stuff...and I read as much pro as I do the con. My church friends like Mike, who by the way feeds the homeless and gives out spare change...what little he himself has...tell me to quit wasting my time reading what they call doctrines of demons. I reply that I can't help it...it is my nature to question rather than ignore. I would never make a good witness for believers and church folk, but I think that God may someday want me to reach the ones who are unimpressed by scripture. I am learning both sides of the debate...mainly by listening to my educated critical and skeptical online friends here. I told Mike that had I not experienced some of the things(like our experience) that I did I likely would doubt that God was real and that my belief was sound. As is, I question it and am unafraid to do so...I simply must hear the counter-arguments. Were it not for the fact that I made a very adult decision to ask Jesus into my heart, and were it not for the events such as hearing the voices so clearly, audibly, and feeling my hair stand on end back in 1995 (or so) coupled with a few other subjective experiences which impressed upon me the reality of Gods involvement, I likely would be another one of EvCs former Christians who once believed but now do not. I pray often but have had more than a few periods where I no longer did so.The two books I ordered in the mail are
Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why by Ehrman, and Misquoting Truth: A Guide to the Fallacies of Bart Ehrman's "Misquoting Jesus" by Timothy Paul JonesI may not buy every orthodox teaching hook line and sinker, but I don't buy many of the counter-arguments either. I will likely get around to reading Schaeffer one of these days...I have ten days to recover from my eye operation and have nothing but time. I don't know if I will be able to read though. Audiobooks may be one solution.

Remember our EvC member Raphael? (One of the ninja turtles) He became a Pastor. I always liked discussions with him...he was so polite. Thanks for the proteins, by the way. I need healthy food in between my attempts at fasting to lower my sugars.

true. If Jesus were but another man in History Christianity would be nothing more than talk. As Jesus Himself asked Peter...Who do You say that I am? So my ongoing question is whether Christianity is about what we do (as jar maintained) or about who Jesus is and through that confession what we are empowered to then do.. GDR argues that is about Christ and not the Bible....but can the two be seperated? You (tangle) may argue that the issue is really about what we humans do in reality rather than through cultish dogma....so it all becomes a question of whether God exists and is the source of our empowerment. Christians believe in Jesus for that reason...in that you can have a relationship with a man rather than a cloud or a universe or an empty belief. Does that make any sense? I type on my android as a blizzard rages outside and we get ready for my 8am retinal vitrectomy to save my left eye. I cant afford to embrace fantasy...i need real assurance.

Im at my sisters recovering. Ths surgery went well...no complications and no need for face down medical equipment needed. I prayed for the surgical staff before going in. the anesthetic has not worn off yet...so i anticipate mild discomfort for a day or two.

I cant expect anyone to accept anything. It was unexplained. Just know that Ive verified that nobody tricked me. I dont really want demons to be real any more than anyone else does. But reality often shows us things we don't want.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

I know these people well. There are certain keys to human nature that can be discerned.

If a close friend or friends attempts to "trick" you, they likely will let you in on the fact that you have been tricked eventually. There would be no motive for them to essentially lie about something that to this day we all can recall to this day. Mikee is like a little brother to me, and he is as mystified about the event as I am. The only difference is that he believes it was demons whereas I believe that it was unexplained. Mike has never lied to me about anything nor is he even the type to have a sneaky ventriloquist "friend" to trick me and then keep quiet about it for 13 years. Of course my criteria for "proof" is different from yours. Perhsaps you would ask that they take a polygraph test. I've no need to. Have you ever had someone whom you knew well inside and out attempt to trick you and then lie for 13 years? If so, I can see your argument.

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Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

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You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

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Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile

OK, I won't argue against that. I have, however, written about it 12 years ago and the recollections in my writings seem the same. One could argue that being a believer I would *want* the story to remain the same. I no longer have a need for convincing others to believe, however. I don't expect to change your mind anytime soon....even if I had seen a UFO, I likely wouldn't change your approach to the truthfulness or lies within the story.Although you likely would say from the start that UFOs are fiction and thus so was my story.