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Author | Topic: Tribute Thread For the Recently Raptured Faith | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Faith writes: I'm not the one who needs to be convinced anyway. But you're the one that thought it worth doing....
Some time it might give you a different perspective to quote some scripture to someone with acute mental illness. Like 1 John 4. The mentally ill have been preached over for generations by well-meaning (and malicious) but misguided sharmans of all varieties. Your favourite branch of Christianity even has a whole set of formal procedures to drive out demons called exorcism. There's a Lutherian version too so I guess reading chunks of biblical bollocks at them doesn't work. Surprise.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Phat writes: ...in the name of a form of rationality backed by NOTHING. Odd thing to say. Rationality is backed by reason, critical thinking, the scientific method and objective evidence. And, god forbid, proveable outcomes. On the other hand, irrationality is useful for what exactly?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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AZP writes: Isn't that used to prove all those things that never happened done by those who never existed? Yeh. But to be fair, irrationality is useful for stuff that doesn't need to be, well, rational - comedy, modern art, procreation, drunkeness, poetry and so on. People like to be irrational sometimes. You can add religion in there if you must. Irrationality is fine in it's place, but it's place is nowhere near anything that needs to be factual like are there real demons?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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Faith writes: Gosh, it seems to me that if separate voices are heard, especially by more than one normally sane person, voices expressing clear things in English from the region of a person's abdomen, say, rather than a voice from his own mouth, it seems eminently rational to conclude that this is not a normal communication from that person, nor a rumbling stomach due to indigestion, nor a hallucination etc etc etc. Rationality means judging things correctly according to accurate perception, but what you are really talking about is not rationality but imposing a bias on perception. These things were commonplace before the world got rational, requiring various Christian and other cultist practitioners to create rituals to deal with them. But, as always, they never, ever occur where they can be actually studied objectively. And reported occurrences are now rare - for the obvious reason that we now know that there's no such thing as demon posession. It's more superstitious crap and I suspect Phat knows it.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Faith writes: What "rituals" anyway? None that I know of. Excorcism. Of course you've heard of it.
If you DID study these things objectively you would very rapidly discover how wrong you are (and then you could experience being treated like an idiot and a throwback to a primitive irrational time), but instead this whole fiction is presented as if it were fact without any study whatever, purely wishful thinking, while those who have witnessed things that don't fit your preconceived explanations are dismissed as crazy. All a wild conjecture treated as reality. THAT's what's crazy. Please produce your evidence. (Anecdotes are not evidence). If this is such a common and real occurrence I'm sure you'll have some actual evidence?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Phat writes: Perhaps they dont want to be known. How come they want to be known occasionally by a few in private? Dowsers can do their thing anytime they like - except when there's a real test, then they all fail. Randi has never paid out. But all this superstitious crap continues.
I know you will argue that "perhaps they dont exist!" Well of course they don't, it's just damn childish.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7
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Phat writes: Percy, ringo, tangle and perhaps PaulK all think a similar way. They would argue that the Resurrection never happened simply because "resurrections don't happen". Don't know about the others, but I don't believe the resurection happened because there's no evidence of it. Period. Your book is not evidence. The story is an obvious myth. Exactly like Mohammed's splitting of the moon. I guess you think that is just a story too?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Phat writes: I believe that there is a truth behind the mythos. Well it sounds like we're making progress. Of course there's 'truth' behind the myths. Just like there's truth behind Santa Clause - it's 'be nice.'
What is so childish of a concept as a Creator of all seen and unseen who exists at some level? It's wishing on a star. Mummy will look after me. It'll be alright in the end etc
You gaffers would be much more impressed with alien slime found on Saturn or some voyager spacecraft.... Sure would
only because evidence confirmed it to your minds. This whole idea of evidence....methinks God purposefully wants to avoid being pinned down by it. As has been said, just like the Loch Ness monster. It really is a pathetic argument, if for no other reason than he made such an enormous fuss about it 2,000 years ago when apparently he wanted everyone to know about it.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Faith writes: You must be thinking of some weird Roman Church thing, because casting out demons is not a ritual in any other context, in fact it is different for each situation. Not just weird Catholic stuff, no.
quote: As for evidence I claim what Phat described is evidence that you willfully ignore without cause. However, I am checking out some sources for myself and if I run across an actual casting out on video I'll post it. Phat witnessed something. Even he doesn't know what it was. That is not evidence of demon posession. Instead of scraping the internet for pointless videos, why don't you ask is what evidence is?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Faith writes: Christianity is a body of knowledge. Ha, that's funny - Christianity is a body of dogma not knowledge. Nothing more than club rules. But it is a body were doubt is ok - at least the more normal ones. You extreem cultists have your own silly rules, so I agree, he really needs to find a less stupid cult to belong to.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Phat writes: I cant afford to embrace fantasy...i need real assurance. I suppose you recognise the irony there? Is it cruel to point out that by your own belief system it is your god that has put you in this situation? Look, all this bollocks apart, I wish you well tomorrow, for now you have to put your trust in your surgeon. Bon chance, matelot.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Phat writes: There is no clear nor concise explanation. An explanation is only necessary when it's been demonstrated that someone called Jesus was executed and put in there dead and that the story of the empty tomb is true. We do not have to provide an explanation of why leprechauns don't wear green coats.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Phat writes: And you are fully responsible for your belief. I don't have a belief.
Using the excuse of lack of evidence wont get you off the hook. What hook?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Phat writes: You don't have evidence either. Why do I need evidence for not having a belief???
What I am saying is that you can't use evidence or lack of evidence to excuse your free choice not to have belief. I don't need an excuse for not believing in what you believe. Unless and until you make an attempt to understand how atheists think about this stuff you'll never get any understanding of how dumb these things sound to me.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Phat writes: leprechauns never mess with our social order. Many people believe just that.
His character, however, is undeniable, based on the writings...which are all we have ever had, even according to you. His character is the character that the novelists gave him. In the book. By unknown authors. That never met him. Written decades after his death. Which, as you say, is all you have.
We can dismiss Him as fiction, but we cant deny the character described. We can describe the character as written in the book. Just like we can describe the character of Bilbo Baggins as written in the book.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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