Here is a review of the numbers. I think I see where you and your idiot conservative pundits get the $70,000 figure. An extreme right hate group the Center for Immigration Studies once made a claim that an undocumented worker would have a lifetime(yes lifetime not annual) fiscal burden of $75,000. Their analysis is highly questionable. Sources of data were very limited and they make claims that are unsupported by the data. They had a conclusion and cherry picked data to affirm the conclusion. Like a creationist. So these right wing liars you trust so much took a lifetime figure and changed it to yearly. PolitiFact | Donald Trump's false claim about the cost of illegal immigration
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
The wall would die by lawsuits even if the money was available
The only sensible compromise is to say thatTrump can have money for his silly wall if the Mexican Government pays it. That’s what Trump promised. If he can’t get that, then maybe the decisions on how to implement border security should be based on more sensible considerations.
A bit ago, I heard that the support by "the people" for building the wall is inversely proportional to the distance they live from the Mexico border. In other words, the closer you live to "the problem", the less you like of the wall idea.
I've also heard that more limited wall building projects passed during the George Bush 2 era are still tied up in court. Even if Trump got his 5+ billion for the wall, it would be a minimum of a LONG time before much of anything actually gets built.
Re: The wall would die by lawsuits even if the money was available
They'll certainly try to stop it that way. I hope they won't succeed but who knows. Most of us are prepared for the total destruction of America by these forces, so if they win we've been expecting it anyway.
I'm sure nobody will bother to watch this but it shows how California is being destroyed by "liberalism." The first three minutes are probably enough to make the point but the rest is good too.
You mean about what the conservative talk show hosts are telling you? We don't think you're lying about that. We just think you're gullible enough to believe them when they lie to you, and your gullibility stems from your lack of interest in a real-world basis for what you believe. Frequently you claim, again without citing any evidence, that support for various absurd claims exists somewhere, you just don't know what it is or where to find it, and have no motivation for rectifying your ignorance. You attempt to defend your positions with content-free things like, "I really can't believe a word anyone on the Left says," and, "The Left just loves lies and hates people for symbolic reasons and couldn't care less about the truth." Way to go.
...there are better explanations for discrepancies between what I'm saying and what you think, the main one being that YOU are the one in the wrong.
You are the one being played for a sucker. Trump and the Republicans have lied to you to get your vote and get into power so they can rob the American people (of which you are one) blind.
I'm sure they do show how the numbers are arrived at...
You watch these conservative talk shows a great deal. If you haven't seen them showing how the numbers are arrived at after all your many, many viewing hours, why do you think they ever show where the numbers come from? Do you think they wait until you're not watching?
...but I don't keep track because it never occurs to me I'm going to be posting these things here.
You post an average of 7 messages/day here on the topics they're discussing, yet it never occurs to you while you're watching that you might be posting about these things here? Really?
Another part of the cost they are no doubt including is the cost in drug trafficking, deaths from drugs, medical and police involvement in that etc.
Now you're just buying into another right-wing echo chamber fallacy. Most illegal drugs are smuggled through legal points of entry. How are you imagining that illegal immigrants cross the border at legal points of entry?
And how many drug dealers do you think there are in the US? This link estimates around 120,000 pot dealers, the most common drug. There must be far fewer hard drug dealers, but let's way overestimate the total number of drug dealers in the US at one million. There are around 11 million illegal immigrants. Even if every single drug dealer in the US were an illegal immigrant, that would still be less than 10% of all illegal immigrants. So the number of illegal immigrants involved in the drug trade must, even using numbers wildly favorable to your position, be a distinct minority of that population.
You need to find numbers that make sense (i.e., are possible) and that support your position.
Many food service workers, guards, cleaners and custodial workers will never recover any lost shutdown pay because they are contractors for the Federal government, not employees. There are around 1200 in the DC area alone. (see The lowest-paid shutdown workers aren’t getting back pay)
Many businesses such as restaurants, shops and parking garages will never recover the sales lost during the shutdown. The Metro in DC as well as taxis and rideshare drivers will never recover the fares for rides not taken.
No one of integrity would weaponize a government shutdown and use it for coercion, and the government should never shut down anyway. The law regarding the debt limit should be repealed.
February 15th is only 2-½ weeks away, and negotiations over border security will be taking place under a compressed timeline and the threat of another shutdown. This is not a normal legislative process. Trump is corrupting it.
Maybe you could actually make an argument instead of trolling and posting shit that makes no sense. WTF are you talking about? Explain what you are trying to say.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
Re: The wall would die by lawsuits even if the money was available
It is in court because people are fighting to keep the government from taking their land. I guess property rights don't matter to wingnuts anymore. Oh thats right. As long as it is someone else.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
quote: None of the dossier has been disproven. Some of it has been verified. Purchasing information is not illegal, per the law I posted. It's not a CONTRIBUTION OR DONATION of something of value. Here's the law again:
quote: ) Prohibition It shall be unlawful for” (1) a foreign national, directly or indirectly, to make” (A) a contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or to make an express or implied promise to make a contribution or donation, in connection with a Federal, State, or local election; (B) a contribution or donation to a committee of a political party; or (C) an expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement for an electioneering communication (within the meaning of section 30104(f)(3) of this title); or (2) a person to solicit, accept, or receive a contribution or donation described in subparagraph (A) or (B) of paragraph (1) from a foreign national.
So Hillary's campaign paying part of the cost of the dossier is legal. Anyone who says otherwise is ignorant or lying.
But your opinions trump the law, amirite?
It is nice to see once again your explicit disinterest in reality. You're snug as a bug in a rug in your bubble of right-wing lies.
Absolutely no facts or data. Hard to stomach Stossel. He is no longer a journalist, he is a right wing propagandist. Your post is also a violation of forum rules. It is a bare link. Post the arguments and evidence presented then we can discuss. Or rather we will attempt to discuss but you rant with no evidence.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
quote:“We are not even into February and the cost of illegal immigration so far this year is $18,959,495,168. Cost Friday was $603,331,392. There are at least 25,772,342 illegal aliens, not the 11,000,000 that have been reported for years, in our Country. So ridiculous! DHS”
Trump claims the source is DHS, but of course that's a lie. The source is this graphic from the right-leaning One America News Network (OAN), which falsely claims they came from a department at the DHS:
First note that the graphic cites total aliens, not illegal aliens. That's why Trump's figure of 25,772,342 for the number of illegal aliens is so far off from the actual estimate of 11 million, down from its peak of around 12 million about a decade ago.
But OAN also erred. 24.5 million is the number of legal aliens. Add to that the 11 million illegal aliens and the total number of aliens in the US is actually around 35.5 million, not 24.5 million. So OAN erred by about 30%, and Trump erred by over 100%.
The fact-checker was unable to obtain a response from OAN about where their other figures came from. Obviously they did not come from any DHS department as the graphic claims.
About the cost of illegal immigration being $18 billion already so far this year, The Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), an anti-immigrant group whose numbers are already high and strongly disputed (the Cato Institute puts the number at somewhere between $3.3 and $15.6 annually), puts the annual number at $116 billion, far less than OAN's claim of $216 billion ($18 billion/month for 12 months). Trump's number is fallacious even by the standards of a strongly anti-immigrant group.
Let's reexamine this other claim you make:
The number I hear most is that one illegal immigrant costs us $70,000 per year...
The actual number is $70,000 for each illegal immigrant over their lifetime from the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS), another group skeptical of immigration. Plugging in some rough numbers, that gives about $1.1 billion annually, way less than Trump's $216 billion.
But immigrants actually provide a net benefit to the country. According to the fact-checker:
Marxism is government ("the people") ownership of industry and business. There are no Marxists in this thread nor in Congress.
Capitalism and socialism ARE opposites.
Socialism can be defined as including public ownership of business, but that's not the definition of socialism anyone here or in the western democracies is using. The term democratic socialism is more accurate but is often shortened to just socialism. What socialism means in western democracies is a social safety net and oversight and regulation of business and industry for the greater good. Examples of such regulations are anti-monopoly laws, environmental laws, and food quality and inspection laws.
Capitalism can absorb some amount of socialism, but the current Democratic party is really aiming for Marxism despite your disbelief.
There are no Marxists in Congress. Try to name one.
Obama was raised in a Communist family.
Your right-wing echo chamber is lying to you again. Neither of Obama's parents were communists. Even if they were communists, so what. Obama believes in democracy and capitalism.
Sanders is a Marxist/Communist.
Your right-wing echo chamber is lying to you again. Sanders is a democratic socialist.
The new crop of members of the House are Marxists. The old guard are really closet Marxists anyway. The whole PC mentality comes from Marxism.
You don't seem to know the definition of Marxism - it's public ownership of industry and business. No one here or in Congress is advocating that.
ANY degree of socialism tends towards Marxism too even if it can be contained by sane heads, and we have very few sane heads on the side of the Democrats these days.
So if you really believe that socialism leads to Marxism, are you willing to give up your social security and Medicare?
All you seem able to do is repeat false statements you've heard from your right-wing media sources and make insulting and untrue accusations. When you try to cite facts they are invariably wrong. You're just a whirlwind of opinion unanchored to reality.
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