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Author Topic:   Christianity and the End Times
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 1524 of 1748 (840234)
09-26-2018 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 1523 by Faith
09-26-2018 4:40 AM


Re: Coming back for the Reaping of Life
Faith writes:
It is so strange to see what you unbelievers come up with about something I've spent years studying and know to be amazingly consistent and full of complex layers of meaning. "Nothing else to go on?" You really have no idea what you are talking about. You decided some time or other that all religion is false I guess and you've got yourself so convinced of that you just continue to say stuff that fits with tht assumption and can't seem to take in any contrary information.
The entirity of your belief system rest on one single book - a collection of short stories. The stories are folk tales, myth and legend. There's no reason why anyone would have anymore knowledge about what's written in there than anyone else.
Istead, what you *do* have is a multitude of different personal opinions which can't be resolved but can be exploited. So much so that civilisations have clashed over them for thousands of years. It really is time we all grew up.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1523 by Faith, posted 09-26-2018 4:40 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1525 by Phat, posted 09-26-2018 11:10 AM Tangle has replied
 Message 1532 by Faith, posted 09-26-2018 12:41 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1526 of 1748 (840238)
09-26-2018 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 1525 by Phat
09-26-2018 11:10 AM


Re: Coming back for the Reaping of Life
Phat writes:
Unless of course God actually existed. Lets say that He did. Would you expect to understand Him? Would you find it silly that others claimed to have any sort of understanding? Maybe they were improving their understanding while you were off fishing. Or maybe while you were fishing you meditated peacefully and improved your understanding without you even being aware of what it was that you were gaining an understanding of.
People are claiming knowledge of the book that's not in the book. Are you saying that god is talking to them privately, explaing things? If so why is Faith's position not the same as GDR's? Is he telling different people different stories? Is he lying to some? All?
Its all about belief. Forget evidence.
If it's all about belief, then it's worthless as people can and do believe anything and everything and the paricular belief is merely a matter of birth.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1525 by Phat, posted 09-26-2018 11:10 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1527 by Phat, posted 09-26-2018 11:36 AM Tangle has replied
 Message 1534 by Faith, posted 09-26-2018 12:47 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1528 of 1748 (840243)
09-26-2018 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 1527 by Phat
09-26-2018 11:36 AM


Re: Coming back for the Reaping of Life
Why are you avoiding answering my questions?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1527 by Phat, posted 09-26-2018 11:36 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1529 by Phat, posted 09-26-2018 11:58 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1554 of 1748 (840299)
09-26-2018 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1529 by Phat
09-26-2018 11:58 AM


Re: Coming back for the Reaping of Life
Phat writes:
I don't believe that God usually gives us direct answers.
Have you ever wondered why?
We don't simply all receive one similar answer.
Why not? He had a simple message that he was so determined to give to the world that he sacraficed his son, yet he garbles the actual message to individuals? Does that actually make sense to you?
Faith and GDR disagree in minor matters.
Faith and GDR differ so violently that she thinks he can't be saved - but she can. Let alone believing that the bible is literally true to the extent that she is literally wrong about the age of the earth and floods and such. How can god do that to her, make her believe something that is demonstrably wrong?
People make up their own stories based on what their inner perception is.
But you tell us that god is creating the inner perception!
Is he lying to some?
No. They lie to themselves.
All?
Highly doubtful. If so, God is unlike what we have taught that He is. I can see why you would conclude that it is better to ignore
This god of yours is apparently causing the confusion between Christian beliefs. But not only that, he's also the god of the Jews and the Muslims. So he's deliberately sowing confusion and dissent amongst ALL his people. Causing wars and conflict. He's a bit satanic isn't he? What a plot twist - god is the Devil.
And all those other religions that are in total error - not even the same god. Is he twisting their minds too? How come they believe what they believe?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1529 by Phat, posted 09-26-2018 11:58 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1587 of 1748 (848070)
01-31-2019 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1585 by Phat
01-31-2019 11:13 AM


Re: Yetzer Hara
Phat writes:
It does sound rather convoluted.
You bet. It's also totally absurd.
Basically you are being told that your omnipotent god has to kill himself in order to be able to forgive you for something that you didn't do.
Does that make any sense at all to you?
Christians at church would not so much as entertain this question.
An organisation not being able to entertain an question should be an immediate reason to leave it. Not being able to answer it is different to not allowing it.
In my opinion, it is a valuable question to put on the list of questions for God to answer.
Sure, but it's hardly original. It's just another age-old question that has an answer but it's not one you want to hear. Just like the problem of suffering. Religion cannot answer these questions.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1585 by Phat, posted 01-31-2019 11:13 AM Phat has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1589 of 1748 (848161)
02-01-2019 3:04 AM
Reply to: Message 1588 by LamarkNewAge
01-31-2019 8:39 PM


Re: Where does scripture say God sacrificed himself (HIMSELF)?
LNA writes:
Without any commentary, just show me the scriptures that say God sacrificed HIMSELF.
HIMSELF.
(And I am not asking for scripture about his child or "son")
Scripture please.
Christians tell us that Jesus is part of a triune God - the Holy Trinity.
I'm not going to defend that obvious crap to you - you'll need to find a Christian to do that. But your good friend google has a lot to say about the Trinity's biblical support. Knock yourself out.
Top 25 Bible Verses about the Trinity: Father, Son & Holy Spirit

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1588 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-31-2019 8:39 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1590 by LamarkNewAge, posted 02-01-2019 8:22 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 1591 of 1748 (848165)
02-01-2019 8:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1590 by LamarkNewAge
02-01-2019 8:22 AM


Re: Where does scripture say God sacrificed himself (HIMSELF)?
LNA writes:
Nice quote from scripture.
(Did you miss the part about me ONLY wanting a raw scriptural quotation, absent any blather?)
Sometimes life is good enough to give you not just what you ask for but also a little bit more. Did you miss the link I gave you showing the biblical passages that Christians believe demonstrates the Trinity?
Again, where does it say God sacrificed himself?
Apparently Christians believe that Jesus was god made man, so...
I don't care what (Gospel) John 1 says.
Me niether.
I know that some scriptures say Jesus was God.
Then presumably you get the point that God made himself the sacrafice.
I just want to see this large New Testament sacrifice theme being put into the context of God HIMSELF being the sacrifice.
(Again, I'm not saying that no New Testament books had the idea present, I just wonder why it might never actually spell out that GOD HIMSELF WAS THE SACRIFICE)
Let me spell it out for you then. If you believe that Jesus was god - tricky to say otherwise and still be a Christian - then he was the sacrafice. And unless he was the sacrafice original sin is not atoned for and we're all going to hell. Simple.
(I suppose my implication is that "Jesus is/was God" was such a LATE-developing idea, that the Biblical scriptures, with a reflection of various (earlier?) Christologies, did not quite have the chance to certainly describe the oft-repeated sacrificial lamb as God himself)
Yeh, well, whatever, it makes no difference to me which bit of the myth was fabricated when - it's still myth, nose to tail. But it SHOULD matter to Phat because he believes something that makes no sense to anyone - a god kills himself to pay for the sins that he didn't commit. What utter drivel.
Here's those scriptures again.
Top 25 Bible Verses about the Trinity: Father, Son & Holy Spirit

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1590 by LamarkNewAge, posted 02-01-2019 8:22 AM LamarkNewAge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1592 by Phat, posted 02-01-2019 9:57 AM Tangle has replied
 Message 1622 by candle2, posted 02-03-2019 11:11 AM Tangle has replied
 Message 1633 by candle2, posted 02-03-2019 6:48 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1595 of 1748 (848175)
02-01-2019 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1592 by Phat
02-01-2019 9:57 AM


Re: Incredulous Drivel
Phat writes:
The things we humans believe! Like that we humans are nothing special in this vast universe and likely as not will die off some year...leaving perhaps no more of a contribution to the intergalactic star stuff than wisps of DNA...and plastic! If you can live with such a hedonistic outlook that basically tells you to go fishing, loving, and creating now for tomorrow we die...knock yourselves out! I dont know what you find so silly about a Creator of all who has the capability of communing with us. No sillier than us communicating with some slime alien at some point in the future...what fun that will be!
In summation, granted some of the Christian mythos is incredulous. Granted much makes no sense.
But the belief in a higher power is no less credulous at this point than our science someday patting itself on the back because we found bacteria on the nearest asteroid!
Whether any of that is true or not is irrelevant as it does not answer the question put to you. A reminder, why would you believe that a god killed himself in order to atone for a sin neither he or you committed?
Does it make any sense to you? It seems from your reply that it doesn't. Do you just shrug it off as a mystery?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1592 by Phat, posted 02-01-2019 9:57 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1598 by Faith, posted 02-01-2019 4:45 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1599 of 1748 (848220)
02-01-2019 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1598 by Faith
02-01-2019 4:45 PM


Re: God did not "kill himself"
Faith writes:
First, what sin is it that nobody has committed? Original sin?
Ah, you knew!
But we don't need to make that much of original sin
Except that it's the brick that the whole bloody Christian edifice is built on. You know, Adam's sin and everything. It's normally considered fairly fundamental.
since having that propensity in us means we all sin all the time every day anyway and need atonement for our own personal sins.
Tricky that. Jesus is reputed to have died before I sinned.
You've made this statement a number of times
Yeh, that's because it's not been answered.
God the Father allowed His Son to be put to death.
Plausible isn't it? Anyway, God the Father's son was apparently also God.
He didn't kill Him and the Son didn't kill Himself.
Of course he did, the Father sent his son to certain death and the son complied. But the two are the same thing anyway. As is the third apparently. 3 in 1 and all that. Basically he crucified himself.
Four thousand years of animal sacrifice should have set the stage for it, as also did the interrupted sacrifice of Isaac by his father Abraham. These were all pictures of what the OT teaches over and over again: sin cannot be atoned for except by blood sacrifice, and animal sacrifice won't really do it, that was all just a picture of how costly the sacrifices must be. The true sacrifice must be human, and the victim must be perfect and unblemished -- all this pictured in the laws of sacrifice too. And the sacrifice of Jesus Himself is spelled out in the Letter to the Hebrews in particular as well.
And all this makes perfect sense to you I suppose?
He gave Himself for the role, but He did not kill Himself. And though He is God He is one of the three Persons who are all God, so that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all God but all separate Persons with separate roles though the same mind.
Still making sense to you?
I know it's all fiction to you no matter what, but if you're going to try to say something meaningful about what Christians think you should at least try to get it right.
So far my summary of god killing himself to atone for a sin neither of us committed matches your verbose description.
So sacrifice of a HUMAN BEING was necessary for the remission of our sins, and the only one who could qualify for that role was a perfect sinless human being and the only one who could be perfect and sinless was the Son of God.
And yet He was a god. And allowed himself to be killed for sins neither we nor he committed.
Thank you for your careful attention to these things."
You're welcome. Did you think all that changes anything? It still makes no sense to me.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1598 by Faith, posted 02-01-2019 4:45 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1600 by Faith, posted 02-01-2019 6:07 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1603 of 1748 (848231)
02-01-2019 6:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1600 by Faith
02-01-2019 6:07 PM


Re: God did not "kill himself"
Faith writes:
Yes original sin is foundational and jesus would have died only for that but the fact is that we all sin personally all the time BECAUSE we inherit original sin. So you can't get away with saying he died for a sin nobody committed.
I said he died for a sin neither he nor we committed.
Even original sin we commit because we inherit its guilt and its consequences,
That's an insane concept.
but I want to make it easier for you
Ha!
so I emphasize that we all sin personally anyway.
Sure, that's the way god made us.
I'll accept that God did the killing
There you go, that wasn't hard was it?
You have to recognize that the Godhead is one but there are Three Persons who all share in the attiributes of God so that the Son does in fact act independently of the Father and the Holy Spirit acts independently of Father and Son, all three nevertheless being God as to attributes.
I recognise that that's incomprehensible but the important point is that god killed himself (or one of himselves) to atone for sins that neither he now we committed. Got it now?
It's not strikingly obvious why a god would find that a useful thing to do. Like I said, makes no sense.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1600 by Faith, posted 02-01-2019 6:07 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1606 by Faith, posted 02-01-2019 7:26 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 1610 of 1748 (848251)
02-02-2019 3:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1606 by Faith
02-01-2019 7:26 PM


Re: God did not "kill himself"
Faith writes:
GOD CAN'T DIE. So God can't "kill himself" anyway.
Right so you've now said the exact opposite of what you said before.
Faith writes:
I'll accept that God did the killing because I wouldn't be a good Calvinist if I didn't
I don't blame you for being confused because once again, you're locked inside a paradox. Jesus can't be both god and man. It's either or. He can't be a god because, as you say, you can't kill a god. But if he was a man the whole shebang is utterly pointess even inside its own tortured pseudo-logic.
The Son of God can't die, but Jesus the Man could, at least He could after accepting all our sins as His own burden, though as sinless in Himself He couldn't die then either. But carrying our sins in His human body He died for us, was killed for us or whatever. But as God, no, God cannot die.
It's all a bit of a nonsense isn't it? How can a god killing a man 2,000 years ago make amends for Adam eating an apple god knows how many years earlier? And how can that have anything to do with us?
How come your all powerful, all present, all knowing god couldn't think of a more comprehensible way of dealing with all this? And if he knew it was all going to happen, why not stop it all before it starts?
All these weird rationalisations make absolutely no sense at all and is really embarassing to hear.
On the otherhand it's all easily explained as primitive people believing that blood sacrafices appeased their imaginary gods and inventing a whole pack of nonsense thereafter.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1606 by Faith, posted 02-01-2019 7:26 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1614 by Faith, posted 02-02-2019 10:09 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1619 of 1748 (848283)
02-02-2019 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1614 by Faith
02-02-2019 10:09 AM


Re: God did not "kill himself"
Faith writes:
Yes I did say it wrong before, not thinking.
The thing is, it doesn't matter. You don't have to think you make up anything you want.
Jesus was goth
That explains a lot.
but He could only die as Man.
Yeh, tricky that.
But the other statement about God doing the killing wasn't wrong, it's just that God can't be killed,
Ha!
only the Man Jesus could be killed. And scripture says in separate places that God did it and that Jesus Himself laid down His own life. I'm not at all confused.
Of course you're not confused - you've made a life of living with contradiction and paradox. You can believe quite literally anything.
Jesus is both God and Man and that is standard Christian theology.
Yeh, and it's total bollox isn't it?
We don't have to understand how things like that are possible,
Well that's just as well isn't it, 'cos it passeth all understanding.
God is beyond our comprehension,
Handy that. Invisible too.
but scripture is clear that it is the case so we know it is the case. Scripture contains the descriptions we rely on.
Which proves that scripture is as believable as a Marvel comic.
Yes I know you think you are smarter than God, but it all hangs together
It hangs together so well that you admit to not understanding it.
The fact is that death is the consequence of sin or disobedience to God. Death was the consequence of eating the forbidden fruit and it is the consequence of every sin we commit, playing out in a variety of infirmities until the whole body dies. As scripture says "the wages of sin is death."
Jesus died so that we won't die, yet we die anyway. It would be a tad more undersandable that when he died to make up for eating the apple, we were all returned to the Garden of Eden. As it is nothing changed.
So death in the place of the sinner is the solution.
Yeh that makes total sense. Not.
Instead of assuming that two thousand years of believers are all idiots, especially if you have any sense at all of some of the great minds among us, ought to give you pause in your rush to come to the silliest possible conclusions.
A god killing himself - even though he can't die - to atone for the mythical sin of an ancestor so that those who didn't commit the sin won't die - although they do anyway. It's definately a puzzle why anyone would swallow that crap, but religion is a powerful thing.
Too bad.
Indeed.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1614 by Faith, posted 02-02-2019 10:09 AM Faith has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 1623 of 1748 (848316)
02-03-2019 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 1622 by candle2
02-03-2019 11:11 AM


Re: Where does scripture say God sacrificed himself (HIMSELF)?
candle2 writes:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God......etc etc
In the beginning was superstition.
I don't care what you bloody book says - it's mythology written for primitive people who had no other explanation for anything that happened to them and has been exploited by kings and charlatans for centuries thereafter.
Quoting that stuff as though it had any explanatory value at all is a waste of electrons. Try again.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1622 by candle2, posted 02-03-2019 11:11 AM candle2 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1627 by Phat, posted 02-03-2019 4:18 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1628 of 1748 (848341)
02-03-2019 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1627 by Phat
02-03-2019 4:18 PM


Re: Where does scripture say God sacrificed himself (HIMSELF)?
Phat writes:
So now that we humans supposedly have explanations, who discovered the explanations? We did, you say? So we have become our own answer to our earlier questions? We have become the word of knowledge ourselves?
If by all this you simply mean that we are beginning to understand things about our universe, then sure. Do you find that controversial?
I don't think so.
You don't think that we're learning things? Really?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1627 by Phat, posted 02-03-2019 4:18 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1629 by Phat, posted 02-03-2019 4:43 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1630 of 1748 (848345)
02-03-2019 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1629 by Phat
02-03-2019 4:43 PM


Re: Where does scripture say God sacrificed himself (HIMSELF)?
Phat writes:
Im just saying that we alone are not our best answer.
We're all we've got. Best make the best of it Chuck.
You may argue that the evidence shows this to be all we have.
There ya go. But that's not all of it. Sure, there's no evidence for your god, but there's also stack of evidence that your god is fictional.
Thus we continue to discuss evidence vs belief. I just wish there were some way I could make an argument for evidence backing belief, but so far I cant.
You can't and no-one ever has. Or ever will.
But not only that, you can't even answer questions about what you actually believe - stuff like suffering, why bad things happen to decent god fearing people like yourself, why god couldn't simply create a heaven for us instead of jumping through all those preposterous hoops of having to kill himself for no sane reason. And so on.
So I need to get to work.
He ain't helping you with that either, is he?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1629 by Phat, posted 02-03-2019 4:43 PM Phat has not replied

  
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