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Author Topic:   Christianity and the End Times
Phat
Member
Posts: 12049
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 1666 of 1673 (848534)
02-08-2019 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1665 by Tangle
02-08-2019 1:28 PM


Re: Origins Of Reality
tangle writes:

We started the process by making up stories to 'explain' things - hence your current beliefs. Science continues this process but in a rational way, based on observation and objective testing in order to separate the real from the imaginary.

So why can we not claim that the idea of multiverses is not simply made up?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1665 by Tangle, posted 02-08-2019 1:28 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1668 by Tangle, posted 02-08-2019 1:40 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

ringo
Member
Posts: 16147
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 1667 of 1673 (848535)
02-08-2019 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1664 by Phat
02-08-2019 1:27 PM


Re: Origins Of Reality
Phat writes:

The author concludes that "the universe" creates its own complexity. How is this not also ad hoc?


Do you know what "ad hoc" means? Your ideas about God change to fit the circumstances. How is that similar to the universe creating its own complexity?

Phat writes:

Are there any universes that *may* exist that we cannot yet define or describe?


If we could detect them, we could describe what we detected. If there's nothing we can detect, we can't have any confidence that there's anything there.

Phat writes:

If we correlate the word paint to the word idea, we thus hypothetically have possible universes, multiverses, or dare i say Gods that exist as ideas not yet defined.


You can't have a painting without the medium of paint. You can't have an idea without the medium of mind.

If something exists as an idea, it IS defined.


And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1664 by Phat, posted 02-08-2019 1:27 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Tangle
Member
Posts: 6618
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 1668 of 1673 (848536)
02-08-2019 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1666 by Phat
02-08-2019 1:32 PM


Re: Origins Of Reality
Phat writes:

So why can we not claim that the idea of multiverses is not simply made up?

But we can!

Multiverse is a hypothesis - a 'made up' idea. It's an idea that has some good mathematical support, but it's still an idea waiting to be verified. When it's verified by whatever method we can, it'll become a scientific fact.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1666 by Phat, posted 02-08-2019 1:32 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3764
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.3


(1)
Message 1669 of 1673 (848543)
02-08-2019 10:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1660 by Phat
02-08-2019 1:16 PM


Re: Origins Of Reality
Are we to conclude that anything a human cannot define or describe does not exist for all practical purposes?

Depends.

If there is an alien species on the other side of the galaxy we know nothing of it. We could never hope to define or describe such a thing ... yet.

Does it exist? "For all practical purposes" ... no.

But, to save the day, there is in the human consciousness the idea of alien creatures on the other side of the galaxy just the fine details aren't filled in all that well.

Before us humans and our new-fangled big abstract-enabled brains there were dinos. She had ideas too. The ideas in her head were I want to eat it or I want to fuck it or I want to run away from it. Not much else. It took the human cogitation to say "the angle of the hypotenuse is equal to the sum of other three sides."

Unless and until whatever it is comes crashing into our notice directly or through our own creativity or leaves breadcrumbs on the sidewalk for us to follow, an idea doesn't come into being.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1660 by Phat, posted 02-08-2019 1:16 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Tangle
Member
Posts: 6618
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 1670 of 1673 (848544)
02-09-2019 3:56 AM


Deserves it's own thread...

Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


candle2
Member
Posts: 51
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 1671 of 1673 (848567)
02-10-2019 8:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1647 by Tangle
02-05-2019 11:05 AM


Re: Where does scripture say God sacrificed himself (HIMSELF)?
"Life began by leaching life from rocks (pre-existing life) makes no sense. It doesn't address the origins of life. And evolution cannot account for such extreme diversity of species, nor can it explain complex symbiosis, irreducible complexity, or the incredible appearance of design.

All science disciplines have their origins in philosophy. Evolutionists are not able to separate themselves from philosophy.

Evolution is the pyrite of philosophy.

I haven't witnessed (nor have the fossils) life evolving over billions of years. No one has witnessed this. What we witness (observe) is kind producing kind.

This is observable science. It is replicated century after century. Anything contrary to our observations is pyrite.

You mention "mixing" over billions of years as though you"re describing a cooking recipe.
However, animals of different kinds do not mix

To say that they do requires a leap of faith. And faith is a religion. And according to many, religion has no place in science. It doesn't even belong in school textbooks.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1647 by Tangle, posted 02-05-2019 11:05 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1672 by Tangle, posted 02-10-2019 9:04 AM candle2 has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6618
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 1672 of 1673 (848568)
02-10-2019 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 1671 by candle2
02-10-2019 8:51 AM


Re: Where does scripture say God sacrificed himself (HIMSELF)?
This doesn't seem like a reply relevant to me. Thank god.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1671 by candle2, posted 02-10-2019 8:51 AM candle2 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1673 by candle2, posted 02-10-2019 2:31 PM Tangle has not yet responded

candle2
Member
Posts: 51
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 1673 of 1673 (848573)
02-10-2019 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1672 by Tangle
02-10-2019 9:04 AM


Re: Where does scripture say God sacrificed himself (HIMSELF)?
I intended to reply to Ringo, but was distracted when my son and grandkids came over. However, my reply applies to all evolutionists.

After all, evolutionists really do believe that the frog turned into a princess, even if it did take billions of years.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1672 by Tangle, posted 02-10-2019 9:04 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
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