Free will vs Omniscience

OK then, assume we both made up our character from the book. You claim He wants us to give everything away. As does the one in the book. I claim that this surely must be misunderstood since it is illogical. You like it because you advocate socialism. I realize that Capitalism is not the answer, but my problem, if any, is that I expect God to take care of me...rather than the people.

well....you are correct. I have a problem with God. I believe that he exists and is interactive with humanity, but I see no evidence of Him taking care of me as I get older and poorer. Thus I cling to everything I have. Then you come along and tell me to give it all away since *my* book says to do exactly that. People won't simply magically become socialist and help each other through old age. We have social security, which helps some...but there is no promises apart from blood, toil, tears, and sweat. Are you surprised that I don't trust Him> He does not make it easy for me.

At least you have faith in something! But where is the evidence? Like I said, at best we have food banks and shelters. Hardly paradise on earth.

My family did, indirectly. I realize that Jesus never did. But He should have. I think I'm as mad at God as Stephen Fry. But I'm not mad about viruses and Ebola. Im mad that life has not been fair. Lots of followers have crappy lives on earth and hope for a better eternity. I expect eternity but rant against an unfair life now.

AllI know is that the Republican Christians have it all wrong. They think that freedom to acquire unlimited wealth is a birthright. I am disappointed with reality on so many levels. Im gonna take a nap before work...thank God I still have a job! (But a possible strike looms here in Denver...and its the darn liberals that wanna push it this time. I get it from both sides.)

This reality is not limited to one "side". The conservative media...people such as Alex Jones...are making fools out of conservatives who view them as gospel. If there is a conspiracy occurring in the world, the media itself is part of it. People are responsible for utilizing various methods for gleaning facts from media fodder. We live in a world of infotainment. All media companies earn revenue essentially the same way. Many cater to specific audiences, and they know what tickles their ears. Bill and Melinda Gates are two people whom I admire. They are giving away much of their fortune to better the world, as is Buffet. I will agree that Soros misuses his fortune for political ends, but then so do the Koch Brothers. There are good and bad liberals and there are good and bad conservatives. Times are changing. The United States is no longer the place it once was with FDR, who was essentially the opposite of Reagan. And our debt began to skyrocket under Reagan and continues to this day. Which side do we blame for that? Certainly not just the liberals. After the aberration of the post-WW II effect, we lost our edge over the rest of the world. My parents did really well in the fifties and sixties. My generation will not do as well as they did. I can't disagree with you there. On the other hand, many people rely on Social Security to keep from being broke when they retire. Should we simply boot them to the shelters and streets?

So in other words, in order to be favorably viewed by we almighty and judging humans, God *must* never create people who end up going bad? This makes more sense to me than the whole idea that God cannot create anyone who will end up turning evil without Himself being labeled as evil. So you are annoyed because He knows something before you do? Assuming that your final destination is foreknown, should that change what you try and do on a daily basis? All the implication means is that every point in time is foreknown. Does it bother you that we don't know our own future and that some other alien might?

Oops. I did not realize you were replying to candle rather than myself. Open mouth insert foot. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

You may like this.
Since you cant see the video, chew on these quotes from Mr. Dillahunty:

quote:

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I want to believe as many true things and as few false things as possible.
It's a meaningless panacea when we invent a god that can do anything and be anything . It serves as an answer to every question and an explanation for nothing.
Refining Reason Debate: "Is It Reasonable to Believe that God Exists?", Memphis, TN, 2014-05-31

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While many Christians claim divine revelation ” some even claiming that the truth has been revealed to them in such a way that there's no possibility that they could be wrong ” there's hardly any points of doctrine upon which all these purported conduits of divine revelation agree. Which means that some if not all of them are wrong. And if you want to know what's wrong with Judaism, you ask a Christian. If you want to know what's wrong with Christianity, you ask a Muslim. If you want to know what's wrong with Catholicism, or Protestantism, or Calvinism, Hyper-Calvinism, Neocalvinism, Southern Baptists, the Church of Christ, or the First Baptist Church of Memphis, you can go to the Second Baptist Church of Memphis or any other denomination.

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Comments? (You likely will agree with him)

You know what I mean. He is essentially omnipresent. And even if it were proven that I did make stuff up, it is at least better than the OT God of the book whose almighty feet you hold to the fire before discarding any reason to seek Him.Sheesh!

I don't, chiefly because I don't believe that He does nothing. Of course, you guys will demand I trot out evidence. That pesky E word! It runs your entire argument, even though I am arguing for a phenomenon without visible evidence. Which I suppose is an excuse for God not seeming to do anything! So here we are.

To go further, how would I know whether something was initiated,influenced, or completed by God or not? Which is why it is easier to keep discussing a hypothetical God...as we have done for years.This hypothetical God is easy for me to describe. My description often gets refuted by you, however. You are one of the few whom I know who both uses the Bible against the characteristics of the OT Yahweh and the NT Jesus...when it suits your argument....and yet hold my feet the fire within the book's pages when it challenges my arguments. Frankly, I think that we humans who choose to believe in God embarrass and limit ourselves by limiting our belief to the old stories. If God were alive and interactive with humanity today, God would, as Sam Harris asserts, use the internet and make videos. God would surely not limit His eternal message to a bunch of old stories.

Perhaps He expects us to be His spokesmen.

I had to factcheck your claims about Obama. Obama and InfanticideI am a political moderate. I am also a Christian, but I like to know whether or not my sources for news are actual facts or rumors run amok.But since we are in my topic on Freewill and Omniscience, I fear we are drifting off topic.
Tell me more about how and why The Trinity is a false Doctrine at this other topic:
The Meaning Of The Trinity

I saw your comment and was reminded of this article: Too Simple to Be Wrong: Atheism’s Bronze-Age Goat Herder ConceitNotable Quote:

quote:

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he conceit probably originated with Kant but has since fallen far. Its contemporary expression might go like this: Way back a long time ago we weren’t so hot at science. We were babies then, so in the face of an unpredictable world we clung to our religion like mama’s skirt. Now we’re growing up and must put away childish things: all religion must go.

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My own rather strong religious impulses, for example, are relics of the bad old days and must be dropped. How? Apparently I must learn some science. Once I do that I’ll be all grown up and I’ll be able to relax and stop worrying, man, and enjoy my life.

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Zooming out: We are at a critical point in history, and the sooner we slough off the old religious crap the sooner we’ll be able to get on with the business of saving ourselves. Because “God” is clearly not going to do it.

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ringo always tells me that God is not going to "do it".But where is the evidence that says that most of the wisdom of the Psalms and Proverbs is outdated for modern day application?