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Author | Topic: The Three Minute SOAPBOX: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
The problem with nuclear is that it is cost prohibitive and there is no cost effective, viable or safe remedy for spent fuel. With the low cost of renewables nuclear is a non-starter.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Modern nuclear power technology is safer, cleaner, and pollutes less than carbon based energy production. ... What do you do with the spent nuclear fuel? Until you deal with the full cycle of energy production you are only looking at part of the issue. When you have waste products that last billions of years you have a problem of ever increasing storage of the toxic waste. This is not feasible to my mind. Coal also produces toxic waste products (look at the news reports of the waste containment ponds from Duke Power and the recent floods in NC for more details). Solar has some issues with initial production waste, but it is one-time. Wind similar (steel production is not "clean"), and they also have issues with energy storage (batteries are not "clean"). There is one nuclear decay chain that does not produce long half-life byproducts, and it is usable in readily available naturally occurring levels: 232Thorium. It has a half-life of 1.40510^10 years, however, the second and fourth byproducts are Radium (gas) isotopes, and it would seem to me feasible to extract this gas to use in a reactor and continuously recycle the Thorium. After all, this occurs naturally in the production of Polonium "halos" ...
quote: The issue of weapons grade byproducts is of course major to concerns for world peace (another reason to use 232Thorium). For some reason governments seem to prefer using systems that can produce weapons ...
... It can completely replace every coal or gas fired power plant RIGHT NOW. Wind and solar energy are nice to have as secondary sources of power, but they can't replace fossil fuels right now. Nuclear can. It takes less time to get solar and wind up and running than it does a new nuclear plant because the elements are currently available and all you need is installation. They can also be moderately scaled for rural/remote use or integrated into a web system (see below).
Every environmentalist should be supporting the increased use of nuclear energy and the advancement of nuclear power technology. It is the one known solution we have for quickly lowering carbon emissions, and it is much safer than the fossil fuel power plants they will be replacing. Disagree. Again the full cycle needs to be considered as well as proper installation. True for any production system, but particularly for any nuclear system with long half-life concentrated byproducts.
quote: The wrong type of reactor in the wrong place, still sending radioactive byproduct into the sea at levels detectable on the east side of the pacific (particularly South America) and detectable impact on marine life in the waters near the reactor site (see reports by some reactionary/concerned groups):
quote: Some hyperbole invoked, but pictures also give valid evidence of the full impact: click to see pictures This should be of major concern for environmentalists.
Integrated distributed web alternative Your proposed use of nuclear to replace current coal/gas plants still uses the current point source grid distribution thinking, which is vulnerable to natural and man-made (terrorist) disasters causing wide-spread blackouts. Wind and solar can be integrated into a distributed web that is more resistant to such failures -- for example, my house runs 100% on roof-top solar power and it can be used when there is a blackout. I also produce excess power that I feed back to the grid, and this would lower the demand in my area which should lead to less brown outs. To my mind and integrated web distributed power generation system is preferable to one based on point source large installations, as it is less vulnerable to disaster (natural or man-made), it also wouldn't require the large transformer stations to step-down the power to usable levels. This requires a paradigm shift in thinking. For an example of the benefits look at the current use of multiple LED lights in traffic lights, street lights and vehicle headlights where some bulbs can fail but the overall lighting is still operational. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : subtby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
for example, my house runs 100% on roof-top solar power and it can be used when there is a blackout. I have a grid tied solar system. My panels do not feed into my system if there is a black out. Code calls for the system to not produce electricity if there is not connection to the grid. This is to prevent power from feeding back into the grid and electrocuting power company workers. Do you have a battery system also that allows you to use your solar during power outages? I am considering a battery system like Tesla Power wall or Fronius Solar Battery. As of right now cost prohibitive but batteries prices continue to drop.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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I think the grid-tied, individual-house system may be a large part of "the answer". The current mega-grid system with only a few input nodes is too vulnerable even if the input nodes are nuclear.
And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
Agreed.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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... Code calls for the system to not produce electricity if there is not connection to the grid. This is to prevent power from feeding back into the grid and electrocuting power company workers. Do you have a battery system also that allows you to use your solar during power outages? ... You need an isolation switch (manual or automatic) as is used for standby generators to prevent feedback, you can add batteries to the system or just use daytime power (sufficient for fridges if left closed at night). Your local electrician should know how to do this.
I am considering a battery system like Tesla Power wall or Fronius Solar Battery. As of right now cost prohibitive but batteries prices continue to drop. This is the wholly grail of alternative power. I've been looking at battery alternatives, currently I use marine deep cycle batteries as I can add incrementally to them without too much sticker shock. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
There is an isolation switch. When isolation switch is thrown the system will not allow power to flow from panels into the house system. Code here does not allow the system to be running if there is no electricity coming from the grid. There is no legal way to do it. I need to find out if I can with a battery system.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
There is an isolation switch. When isolation switch is thrown the system will not allow power to flow from panels into the house system. Code here does not allow the system to be running if there is no electricity coming from the grid. There is no legal way to do it. I need to find out if I can with a battery system. Actually (my bad) it's more of an either/or switch. It turns off power to the grid to power the house OR it uses the grid for power. With it on "house" power it is like having a completely isolated solar system. Compare to using a generator and how it should be wired to meet code and safety issues:How to Connect a Portable Generator to a House: 14 Steps https://www.instructables.com/...y-Generator-to-Home-Hook-Up for examples. From second link
quote: Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : .by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
We cannot do that here. Code does not allow it. They treat solar system different than a home generator.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
We cannot do that here. Code does not allow it. ... Have you talked to your local building inspector?
... They treat solar system different than a home generator. Perhaps they should treat home generators more like solar -- if the object is to prevent grid feedback. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
Have you talked to your local building inspector?
Yup. I actually misspoke. It is not a code building code issue. It is a decision made by the local power company. It is a requirement in order to connect to their grid. They will not allow any production facility to connect to their grid unless it is isolated when power fails. Home generators are not power production facilities. My roof top solar is considered an electricity production facility.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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Stile Member Posts: 4295 From: Ontario, Canada Joined:
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Theodoric writes: They will not allow any production facility to connect to their grid unless it is isolated when power fails. I have an idea, but I don't think it's very good - and I wonder about it's practicality.But, perhaps, it might initiate other ideas? Can this be solved using a contactor and hard-wired timer? That is... have "power from the grid" coming in and power a contactor and 5-min timer before it gets to your house (and your solar system's feedback connection.)Use that contactor, again, to block power going to your house (and your solar system's feedback connection.) Use the hard-wired timer to kill the contactor every 5-mins. When grid power is on - everything's connected (and you can send your feedback back onto the grid.)-your connection to the grid will go down every 5 mins. But, if you have power from your solar system - you shouldn't even notice (theoretically) before the gird powers the contactor back on again -I'm not sure how practical this part is. That is, how often will the contactors fail if they're "firing" every 5 minutes? Do you actually not notice anything - or will this actually cause your lights to dimly flicker every 5 minutes (can cause power issues to other sensitive things like computers or electronics.) When grid power goes down - everything will swap over to your solar system - again, at this point, you won't notice. As well, your connection to the grid will actually still be connected at this moment.However, when the 5-min timer goes off, there will be nothing to power it back on again - this is where your connection to the grid gets severed (automatically) and your solar power will then be the only thing powering your house. Not sure if there's anything useful there or not.Just a thought.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Yup. I actually misspoke. It is not a code building code issue. It is a decision made by the local power company. It is a requirement in order to connect to their grid. They will not allow any production facility to connect to their grid unless it is isolated when power fails. Home generators are not power production facilities. My roof top solar is considered an electricity production facility. What you may need to do then, is charge batteries from the solar and use those through a secondary inverter and panel to power specific critical uses (fridge, heat control, etc), taking them off the main panel. The batteries would be isolated by the existing system from grid feedback. The only question I have would be whether or not you could use the panels to recharge the batteries, as that impacts the sizing of the battery bank -- overnight vs over a week outage, say. This means that the specific critical uses would be permanently run through the secondary off-grid system. This is also a DIY system, and the only critical item is the battery calculation for those services. I've drawn it out, but it seems I need a new photo on-line service ... I can email (message) you with it. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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