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Author Topic:   Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor?
edge
Member (Idle past 407 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 136 of 1385 (849603)
03-15-2019 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by Dredge
03-14-2019 11:52 PM


I don't know - certainly not me.

So, you really don't have a point other than saying the equivalent of 'grass is green'.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Dredge, posted 03-14-2019 11:52 PM Dredge has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5411
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 137 of 1385 (849607)
03-15-2019 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by Dredge
03-15-2019 12:39 AM


Re: Name one.
I'm not aware of any evolutionary theory that has provided a practical use in medicine or in any form of applied science.

Well, you are a religionist and we already know your powers of critical thinking and logic can, shall we say, be difficult to accept so this opinion, like so many others by you and your most holy brethren holds no sway.

Got any more?


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Dredge, posted 03-15-2019 12:39 AM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-15-2019 7:29 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply
 Message 154 by Dredge, posted 03-17-2019 2:07 AM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2389
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 9.7


Message 138 of 1385 (849609)
03-15-2019 7:29 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by AZPaul3
03-15-2019 6:17 PM


Re: Name one.
AZPaul3 writes:

I'm not aware of any evolutionary theory that has provided a practical use in medicine or in any form of applied science.

Well, you are a religionist and we already know your powers of critical thinking and logic can, shall we say, be difficult to accept so this opinion, like so many others by you and your most holy brethren holds no sway.

It is funny that he doesn't realize that his bullshit will never convince anyone working in any biological fields that they are doing it all wrong or that what they are learning has no value.

What a sad, empty life his rules would create.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by AZPaul3, posted 03-15-2019 6:17 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by ringo, posted 03-16-2019 11:45 AM Tanypteryx has responded
 Message 155 by Dredge, posted 03-17-2019 2:12 AM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18827
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 139 of 1385 (849617)
03-16-2019 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 138 by Tanypteryx
03-15-2019 7:29 PM


Re: Name one.
Tanypteryx writes:

It is funny that he doesn't realize that his bullshit will never convince anyone working in any biological fields that they are doing it all wrong or that what they are learning has no value.

What a sad, empty life his rules would create.


*looks through microscope* "God did it."

*looks through telescope* "God did it."

"Wait a minute. Why are we wasting time and money on this when we know God did it?"

Any practical use for a supernova or a black hole?


And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-15-2019 7:29 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-16-2019 12:03 PM ringo has responded
 Message 146 by Phat, posted 03-16-2019 4:53 PM ringo has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2389
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 9.7


Message 140 of 1385 (849620)
03-16-2019 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by ringo
03-16-2019 11:45 AM


Re: Name one.
Any practical use for a supernova or a black hole?

FTL?


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by ringo, posted 03-16-2019 11:45 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by ringo, posted 03-16-2019 12:25 PM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18827
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 141 of 1385 (849622)
03-16-2019 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by Tanypteryx
03-16-2019 12:03 PM


Re: Name one.
Tanypteryx writes:

FTL?


Maybe someday. But that would be like citing a possible someday cure for cancer as a use for UCA.

It's a good thing we don't demand today uses for every scientific discovery. We'd still be running away from fire because it's burny-burny.


And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-16-2019 12:03 PM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by Phat, posted 03-16-2019 1:34 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply
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Phat
Member
Posts: 14760
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 142 of 1385 (849624)
03-16-2019 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by ringo
03-16-2019 12:25 PM


Re: Name one.
im bad with abbreviations. What do FTL and UCA mean? Oh, wait...UCA is universal common ancestor. But what is FTL?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by ringo, posted 03-16-2019 12:25 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by AZPaul3, posted 03-16-2019 1:55 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5411
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


(1)
Message 143 of 1385 (849630)
03-16-2019 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by Phat
03-16-2019 1:34 PM


Re: Name one.
FTL. faster than light, warp speed, relatively quick, not slow.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Phat, posted 03-16-2019 1:34 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14760
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 144 of 1385 (849631)
03-16-2019 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by ringo
03-16-2019 12:25 PM


Re: Name one.
ringo writes:

We'd still be running away from fire because it's burny-burny.

Conservatives think that fire is Bernie Bernie. It is hard to believe that Trump and Bernie Sanders shared a UCA.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by ringo, posted 03-16-2019 12:25 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by ringo, posted 03-16-2019 2:21 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18827
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


(2)
Message 145 of 1385 (849633)
03-16-2019 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by Phat
03-16-2019 2:11 PM


Re: Name one.
Phat writes:

Conservatives think...


Oxymoron.

Phat writes:

It is hard to believe that Trump and Bernie Sanders shared a UCA.


It's easier to believe that Trump shares a UCA with parasitic worms - with apologies to the parasitic worms; they can't help it.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Phat, posted 03-16-2019 2:11 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14760
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 146 of 1385 (849643)
03-16-2019 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by ringo
03-16-2019 11:45 AM


Re: Name one.
I had to look up "religionist". It isnt even in google dictionary, though I found it at urban dictionary and at free dictionary online.

ringo writes:

*looks through microscope* "God did it."

When I look through the microscope I see that I have a rational mind and also a animal brain....known in Rational Recovery as AVRT or The Beast.

I wonder if the animal brain rules the thinking in addicted religionists?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by ringo, posted 03-16-2019 11:45 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by ringo, posted 03-17-2019 2:21 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1295
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 147 of 1385 (849648)
03-17-2019 1:14 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by Tanypteryx
03-15-2019 3:29 AM


Tanypteryx writes:

I made my living in biology and the first time I ever heard the term "applied biology" was from you right here.


1. What? You're a professional biologist and you've never heard of "applied biology"?!
2. Instead of saying or writing, "practical applications of the observable facts and principles of biology", I simply say "applied biology". Try it - it's 2 words verses 7, or 71 characters verses 15!

their life history ... evolutionary history ... recent common ancestors ... species history

This useful histoical information is confined to no higher than the level of genus - which means, as far as your work is concerned, the concept of UCA is as irrelevant and useless as a fairy tale. A YEC biologist could do the same work you do without being professionally comprised in any way. In fact, a biologist could believe life on earth is only 100 years old and still do the work you do.

We talk about evolution continuously

Whatever practical applications you have for "evolution" are simply practical applications of observable facts and principles of biology - none of which depend on the concept/theory of UCA or indeed any theory of evolution.
Since none of the observable facts and principles of biology depend in any way on the concept of UCA or evolutionary theory, the constant references to "evolution" by biologists may be redundant.

As far as universal common ancestors go it's kind of an obvious conclusion from what we are seeing (to us).

1. Of course you do - biologists are brainwashed to think in terms of the "unifying concept" of UCA, believing UCA is not only a fact, but is essetial scientific information.
2. That's odd - humans had been exploiting the genetic variations in plants and animals and studying the respective common ancestries for thousands of years and no one ever thought UCA was "an obvious conclusion" ... and no one ever thought to call what they observed "evolution". But that's another story.

People talk about it over beers and at meetings and on field trips, but opinions seem to be spread out over several options.

No amount of rabbiting on about Darwinian folklore in bars and around campfires makes it true or practically useful.

There could be one or a few common ancestors and some of them seem to have exchanged genes and organelles. Most biologists are working on more important problems

Hilarious. How do theoretical uncertainties relating to a concept that is totally irrelevant and useless in the real world amount to one of biology's "problems"?

occasionally they run across evidence that gives us clues to understanding deeper ancestry. Tens of thousands of species are having their genomes sequenced and this is data on an unprecedented scale. Someone sees the value in what we are learning.

The concept of UCA has no "value" at all in biology, as none of the observable facts and principles of biology depend on it in any way.

You seem to be giddy that we don't know everything there is to know about a universal common ancestor and that you can't find a practical use for any knowledge we may have learned.

1. I'm "giddy" that any biologist thinks it's important. The bizarre fact is, most biologists are throughly brainwashed to accept the myth that the evolutionary interpretation of the history of life (ie, the concept of UCA) is essential to "understanding" biology. Rare is the biologist who realizes that none of the observable facts and principles of biology depend on this Darwinian folklore.
2. an unverifiable story about what might have happened billions of years ago hardly qualifies as "knowledge".

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-15-2019 3:29 AM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-17-2019 2:30 PM Dredge has responded

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1295
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 148 of 1385 (849649)
03-17-2019 1:25 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by Tanypteryx
03-15-2019 3:29 AM


Tanypteryx writes:

We don't give a shit whether you benefit from it or not


NO ONE benefits from the concept of UCA ... or any evolutionary theory, for that matter. Its only "benefit" is to make all those atheists out there feel more emotionally secure.

and we know a hundred ways to kill you with insects

This must be an advanced biological discovery, with which I am unfamiliar. Sounds fascinating though!

We are not applying evolution to what we are discovering, we are learning evolution from what we are discovering.

Whatever useful applications of biology are discovered, you can be 100% certain none of them will depend on accepting UCA.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-15-2019 3:29 AM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-17-2019 2:41 PM Dredge has responded

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1295
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 149 of 1385 (849650)
03-17-2019 1:29 AM
Reply to: Message 130 by Tangle
03-15-2019 3:17 AM


Tangle writes:

Is your concen that in unearthing this knowledge it will further undermine a few fundamentalists' beliefs?


Which "fundamentalists' beliefs" do you have in mind?

A young earth? Sorry, think again.
Fixed created "kinds"? Sorry, think again.
Creation in "six days"? Sorry, think again.

I accept the same age of life on earth and the same fossil record as you do.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by Tangle, posted 03-15-2019 3:17 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by Tangle, posted 03-17-2019 4:00 AM Dredge has responded

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1295
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 150 of 1385 (849651)
03-17-2019 1:35 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by edge
03-15-2019 3:30 PM


edge writes:

try telling biologist who doesn't work in applied biology...

A biologist who doesn't work in the field of applied biology isn't worth talking to.

You are the one who wanted to confine the discussion to 'applied biology' but now you want to extend it to be the same as all of biology including theoretical biology. Why not just say to 'all of science and engineering' and be done with it.

What?

So, you really don't have a point other than saying the equivalent of 'grass is green'.

What?

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by edge, posted 03-15-2019 3:30 PM edge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by edge, posted 03-17-2019 10:51 AM Dredge has responded

  
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