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Author Topic:   Discussion With A Conservative Pastor: I CANT & Phat Only..for now
Member (Idle past 63 days)
Posts: 6269
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007

Message 46 of 47 (847769)
01-26-2019 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Phat
01-26-2019 1:53 AM

Re: Daddys Opportunities
Hi Phat,

Phat writes:

What was the reason? Did you tell everyone the same thing?

We just got back from visitation and we knocked on 300 doors this morning.

The reason we do this is because Jesus told His disciples to go into the world and make disciples and then to teach them the all things he had taught them.

The only reason for a churches existence is to carry out this mission He gave to it. We use door hangers that has a picture of our church on the front with our address, phone number and a invitation for them to come and worship with us and giving the church schedule.

On the back is God's simple plan of salvation. I designed these and make them myself.

We do not push anything we simply visit as a neighbor.

Phat writes:

I remember my Daddy as having a loving giving heart, but also a man that had not fully learned to be honest with himself and open up.

My dad was one of the greatest people I ever knew. He never hurt anyone but he could have. He wa 6'1 weighed 245 lbs and wore size 33 britches and could lift the front end of a farmall super A tractor off the ground. He would help anybody and did. If you needed his shirt he would have taken it off and gave it to you. All of this before he was born again. I had been born again for 14 years before my dad was born again. But being good and being sincere does not satisfy God's requirement for entrance into heaven.

So we knock on doors and try to present an alternative for people to choose to believe God exists, loves them, and will save them. Rather than spend eternity with the devil.

Phat writes:

I won't feel guilty simply for not pushing Jesus onto them.

As I said we don't push or pressure people to be saved. I found out a long time ago if I convinced a person to be saved against their will that they were unconvinced still. Meaning they were still lost and probably never would get saved as they had a false belief.

One example of how I operate. My teenage brother in law whom I loved told me one day after I had witnessed to him on many occasion that he would get saved when he was ready. From that moment I never mention salvation to him again. I had done my job as he realized he needed to be saved. A few years later he was saved and went on to become a sunday school teacher and finally a deacon in the church.

We are to witness and set the example and then depend on God to finish the job.

God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Phat, posted 01-26-2019 1:53 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Phat, posted 03-22-2019 10:41 AM ICANT has not yet responded

Posts: 13789
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3

Message 47 of 47 (849814)
03-22-2019 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by ICANT
01-26-2019 12:56 PM


How are you doing, Pastor? A lot has been happening here in Denver recently. I won't get into the Labor Negotiations stuff...you can read about that in my other topic. What I wanted to talk about today were conversations that I had with two of my Pastors...or should I say former Pastors because one of them moved to California and the other one still heads up our church. To be honest, I don't get to church very often because I work on Sundays and also because I feel like I can't relate to the flock...they are very literalist and simple Bible Believing people who know very little about science and who never engage in any debates as we do here at EvC...though they are good at debating/discussing scripture.
Here is what Pastor Joe posts on Facebook.

A mediator is a person who seeks to resolve conflicts, bringing about a negotiated peace between two parties who are at odds with one another. The conflict between God and mankind is not one that a mediator can simply negotiate away. Something deep — God’s holiness — has been transgressed and the required mediation involves the offending party to make it right. The enmity between God and humanity calls for something much more significant than a typical negotiation. Something supernatural needs to occur to bring about a resolution in the conflict between God’s holiness and fallen human beings.

Though we see Moses functioning as a mediator in Deuteronomy 5:5, Christians have a mediator who is far superior to him. In fact, this mediator satisfied the terms of the negotiation himself by taking the punishment required to bring about peace and right the wrongs caused by our unrighteousness (Jer 31:31 – 34; Heb 9:14 – 15). Whereas Moses was unable to ensure the Lord’s continued favor as the leader of the Israelites, Jesus secured eternal blessing for those who find righteousness in him. Whereas the people of Israel feared the presence of God because of their sin (Dt 5:5), Christians may enter the presence of God boldly because of a perfect standing before the Lord through Jesus (Eph 3:12). In Jesus and through faith in him, believers may approach God with freedom and confidence that they will not be rejected or judged for shortcomings. His righteous perfection covers imperfection and provides admission into the presence of God. What a mediator is Christ Jesus!
Deuteronomy‬ ‭5:4-5‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

We can discuss this scripture if you want.

I have not heard from you in a while. You must be busy with your own flock doing the stuff you guys do.
Also, I wanted to share with you a conversation that I had with my Old Pastor in Cali. I edited the names so as to protect my friend's privacy. The conversation arose because of something I posted on Facebook. It was a New Age quote regarding the concept of love. I should have known that it would cause controversy!


facebook discussion between myself and others writes:

Pastor: You believe this?

Me: I know that God is love...not some vague universal energy force...and I also know that Jesus embodies perfect love and that only through Him can we truly love. Which leads me to wonder why I'm still selfish and stingy...

Mike: This is a new age philosophy bro not Biblical.

Me: I know that it is, Mike. Technically it is called syncretism, I believe. Part truth and part error. I know the difference. My mind works by comparing different philosophies and discerning truth vs error. I never listen to just one side in an argument or discussion...except when I pray. Then I surrender to His wisdom. Sometimes I post something without having really read it thoroughly...
When I teach, I present more than one argument (even if Jesus IS the right One ) so that people can see the subtle differences in philosophy.

Pastor: do you not take heed during your preaching time (teaching) Galatians 1:8,9 into account? It was Paul bringing a rebuke, not once but twice. I believe there has been many of these brought to you. Now, do you also teach while presenting an argument other than the Gospel that the Gospel of Christ is not of mere man's wisdom? To me, it makes more logical sense to believe the one who received it by divine revelation. Besides, that’s more epic! And another thing, I don’t care what anyone says. I believe it. I’m sure after all these years of educating yourself with man's wisdom it’s taken a toll on you. Perhaps (this is) why you're teaching mans wisdom as you compare it to the Truth.
In my opinion, you can’t compare apples to oranges. But, because I know you have always been into man's wisdom and ways I wouldn’t expect anything other.

All the years and you're still pondering and intrigued by the man of this world. Peace and Grace to you Brother. Hope all is well. I’m enjoying California for this season.

Me: I'm glad that you are doing well in Cali and I know that God is using you for a lot of great things. We really miss you here. I miss our arguments, and I have learned to accept rebuke...but a wise man seeks a multitude of council.

This whole idea of "the Bible says it..that settles it" theology will not reach the current generation or the techno world of today without the power of the Holy Spirit. Now I will agree that Gods wisdom is superior to man's wisdom. I DO need to humble myself. I want to go to lunch with Pastor Joe one of these days. I will admit that I can be a rebel.

Mike: If you abide in Me and My words abide in you, ask whatever you want and it will be given you. #REDLETTERJESUS apart from Me, you can do nothing!

Me I can never argue with scripture...at least in the NT. Some of that OT stuff is puzzling, though. Like that one part about the sun stopping!

Mark: May not be verbiage from the Bible, but the sentiment surely is biblical.

Arthur Will u feel painfully remorseful Craig if you stepped on a worm?

Me I can agree with my Pastors that human wisdom in and of itself is flawed. I do not consider myself a word for word literalist, but more of a thought for thought literalist. Let's take the story of the Flood. I have watched arguments about whether the event actually happened or not play themselves out many many times at EvC Forum, where I hang out. And in today's modern world one cannot be expected to literally believe this story without denying everything that humans have learned since the story was written. Pastor Age is right, though, in that sometimes you just have to believe. My point, if I have one, is that one need not believe a "Whole Bible" (in a word for word context) in order to be a believer.

Mike: (Phat), do you believe God lies to His people?

Me: ok...I'll go with this...WHO are His people? (For the record I believe that God cannot lie.)

Mike His people are whosoever believes, His whole word is truth yet when He says he stopped the sun, you call it a lie.

It goes on...

What would you say if you were a part of that conversation?

The rest of you can comment here:
Peanut Gallery Comments on Great Debate

Edited by Phat, : added link

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by ICANT, posted 01-26-2019 12:56 PM ICANT has not yet responded

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