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Author Topic:   Christianity and the End Times
ringo
Member
Posts: 16358
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 1696 of 1742 (849821)
03-22-2019 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1695 by Phat
03-22-2019 12:04 PM


Re: Origins Of Reality
Phat writes:

Are you suggesting that IF Jesus existed and IF
He was to exist today, humanity would be better off were He an atheist?


I'm suggesting that humanity would be better off without empty belief. For one thing, we could stop wasting money on crystal cathedrals and spend it on healthcare.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1695 by Phat, posted 03-22-2019 12:04 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1699 by Phat, posted 03-22-2019 8:53 PM ringo has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6745
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.4


(2)
Message 1697 of 1742 (849822)
03-22-2019 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1695 by Phat
03-22-2019 12:04 PM


Re: Origins Of Reality
Phat writes:

Are you suggesting that IF Jesus existed and IF
He was to exist today, humanity would be better off were He an atheist?

Possibly the ultimate act of teenage rebellion, the son of god says he doesn't believe in his dad.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1695 by Phat, posted 03-22-2019 12:04 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1698 by Phat, posted 03-22-2019 8:49 PM Tangle has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12254
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 1698 of 1742 (849830)
03-22-2019 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1697 by Tangle
03-22-2019 1:06 PM


Re: Origins Of Reality
Tangle writes:

Possibly the ultimate act of teenage rebellion, the son of god says he doesn't believe in his dad.

So where does He think He came from?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1697 by Tangle, posted 03-22-2019 1:06 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1700 by Tangle, posted 03-23-2019 3:45 AM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12254
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 1699 of 1742 (849831)
03-22-2019 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1696 by ringo
03-22-2019 12:10 PM


Re: Origins Of Reality
ringo writes:

I'm suggesting that humanity would be better off without empty belief. For one thing, we could stop wasting money on crystal cathedrals and spend it on healthcare.

People should be able to spend their money on whatever they want. We don't need extreme socialists to form some consensus on what's best for all of us any more than we need extreme conservatives giving themselves tax cuts.

Maybe that's why I am a political moderate.

I do agree that Jesus would want us to take care of each other, however. Even if he were an atheist.

Add By Edit: Though I seriously doubt that He thinks Joseph is His Daddy. Critics will patiently await my evidence, but no DNA was taken at that time and place. Personally, I think Carrier and the Mythicists are daft, however. As far as empty belief goes, this whole atheism thing is more empty to me than anything the believers can churn out. The known universe, not to mention the hypothetical multiverses are too big to be empty.

You likely could imagine a hypothetical ET coming to help out the Bronze Age. I suppose that to you, that makes more probable sense than the dogma.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1696 by ringo, posted 03-22-2019 12:10 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1701 by ringo, posted 03-23-2019 11:46 AM Phat has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6745
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 1700 of 1742 (849842)
03-23-2019 3:45 AM
Reply to: Message 1698 by Phat
03-22-2019 8:49 PM


Re: Origins Of Reality
Phat writes:

So where does He think He came from?

Joseph and Mary I expect.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1698 by Phat, posted 03-22-2019 8:49 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1702 by Phat, posted 03-23-2019 4:57 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16358
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 1701 of 1742 (849852)
03-23-2019 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1699 by Phat
03-22-2019 8:53 PM


Re: Origins Of Reality
Phat writes:

People should be able to spend their money on whatever they want.


That's a pretty conservative viewpoint.

Phat writes:

We don't need extreme socialists to form some consensus on what's best for all of us...


You're the only one who talks about "extreme socialism".

And we certainly do need a consensus on what's best for all of us. It's called "civilization", "society", etc.

Phat writes:

As far as empty belief goes, this whole atheism thing is more empty to me than anything the believers can churn out.


That's kinda the point. If you can't detect any water in the glass, it can't do you any good. For all intents and purposes, it is empty, so there's no use pretending it's full or even half-full.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1699 by Phat, posted 03-22-2019 8:53 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1703 by Phat, posted 03-24-2019 10:16 AM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12254
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 1702 of 1742 (849865)
03-23-2019 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1700 by Tangle
03-23-2019 3:45 AM


Re: Origins Of Reality
What you expect and what I expect are likely two different scenarios, although you are a likable and knowledgeable chap. Have you ever seen the play, Hamilton? I like the music.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1700 by Tangle, posted 03-23-2019 3:45 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12254
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 1703 of 1742 (849885)
03-24-2019 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 1701 by ringo
03-23-2019 11:46 AM


Re: Origins Of Reality
Phat writes:

People should be able to spend their money on whatever they want.


ringo writes:

That's a pretty conservative viewpoint.


So what would the liberal viewpoint be? "People should be able to spend their money on what we want? See, this is why I am a political moderate. Keywords: Should Be Able. Never Required. The two-party system prevents excessive measures.

ringo writes:

And we certainly do need a consensus on what's best for all of us.

How would such a consensus be drawn? Measured? Implemented?
ringo writes:

If you can't detect any water in the glass, it can't do you any good.

The glass is a metaphor for _________?
The water is a metaphor for...? Comments?

For all intents and purposes, it is empty ...
Oh so you mean Belief? I suppose that metaphorically belief could be equated to water.
Reread the Woman at the well. If you never thirst again, the glass cant very well be empty now can it?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1701 by ringo, posted 03-23-2019 11:46 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1704 by ringo, posted 03-24-2019 2:20 PM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16358
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 1704 of 1742 (849892)
03-24-2019 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1703 by Phat
03-24-2019 10:16 AM


Re: Origins Of Reality
Phat writes:

See, this is why I am a political moderate. Keywords: Should Be Able. Never Required.


But of course you are required to pay your taxes. You are required to contribute to defense, policing, roads, schools, etc.

Phat writes:

The two-party system prevents excessive measures.


Not when both parties are conservative.

Phat writes:

ringo writes:

And we certainly do need a consensus on what's best for all of us.


How would such a consensus be drawn? Measured? Implemented?

Democracy.

Phat writes:

Reread the Woman at the well. If you never thirst again, the glass cant very well be empty now can it?


It can if never thirsting again is an empty promise.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1703 by Phat, posted 03-24-2019 10:16 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1705 by Phat, posted 03-25-2019 5:32 AM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12254
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 1705 of 1742 (849900)
03-25-2019 5:32 AM
Reply to: Message 1704 by ringo
03-24-2019 2:20 PM


Re: Origins Of Reality
ringo writes:

It can if never thirsting again is an empty promise.

So what makes a promise empty? Lack of Evidence or Lack Of Belief?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1704 by ringo, posted 03-24-2019 2:20 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1706 by ringo, posted 03-25-2019 11:38 AM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16358
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 1706 of 1742 (849905)
03-25-2019 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 1705 by Phat
03-25-2019 5:32 AM


Re: Origins Of Reality
Phat writes:

So what makes a promise empty? Lack of Evidence or Lack Of Belief?


You can answer that for yourself. Even if you believe fervently in leprechauns, isn't the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow still an empty promise? And why? Isn't it because there's no evidence for leprechauns?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1705 by Phat, posted 03-25-2019 5:32 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1707 by Phat, posted 04-18-2019 6:26 AM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12254
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 1707 of 1742 (850966)
04-18-2019 6:26 AM
Reply to: Message 1706 by ringo
03-25-2019 11:38 AM


Re: Origins Of Reality
ringo writes:

You can answer that for yourself. Even if you believe fervently in leprechauns, isn't the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow still an empty promise? And why? Isn't it because there's no evidence for leprechauns?

Think about it. Even if God did not exist, we all know that rainbows exist and that gold exists. I am now wise enough to know that gambling never brings gold. My hope is that my newest career as Thugpreacha

will perhaps lead to a piece of gold, if not an entire pot full. What's great about all of this is the fact that I have finally been able to overcome my gambling addiction. Even if I never made a dime off of my online character the experience is worth far more than gold, in my opinion.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1706 by ringo, posted 03-25-2019 11:38 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1708 by ringo, posted 04-18-2019 11:51 AM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 16358
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 1708 of 1742 (850972)
04-18-2019 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1707 by Phat
04-18-2019 6:26 AM


Re: Origins Of Reality
Phat writes:

Even if God did not exist, we all know that rainbows exist and that gold exists.


And we know that there is no gold at the end of the rainbow. What's your point? Even if God did exist, we know He's not going to answer your prayers.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1707 by Phat, posted 04-18-2019 6:26 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1709 by Phat, posted 04-18-2019 3:41 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12254
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 1709 of 1742 (851052)
04-18-2019 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1708 by ringo
04-18-2019 11:51 AM


Re: Origins Of Reality
ringo writes:

What's your point? Even if God did exist, we know He's not going to answer your prayers.

This is where you and I respectfully disagree. *We* do not have a consensus on this point.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1708 by ringo, posted 04-18-2019 11:51 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1717 by ringo, posted 04-20-2019 12:19 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19818
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 1710 of 1742 (851056)
04-18-2019 4:37 PM


So is the Rapture happening this year?
So is the Rapture happening this year?

I saw some comment about April 28th, but google can't confirm.

In any case please donate all your worldly goods to homeless shelters to prepare for it ...

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

Replies to this message:
 Message 1711 by 1.61803, posted 04-18-2019 5:10 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply
 Message 1713 by dwise1, posted 04-18-2019 6:56 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
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