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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Right Side of the News | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I'll think about it.
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DrJones* Member Posts: 2284 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 6.8 |
No evidence" means, surprise surprise, "no evidence." And again, that's what Barr reported Mueller said. Here is a link to Barr's summary, where does he claim that the Mueller invesigation found "no evidence" Read Attorney General William Barr’s Summary of the Mueller Report - The New York TimesIt's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds soon I discovered that this rock thing was true Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world And so there was only one thing I could do Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On *not an actual doctor
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Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
Faith writes: Sorry, Mueller found "no evidence" of collusion. Absurd denials like this bring discussion to a crashing halt are why you'll not be permitted in threads where people are attempting to engage in constructive discussion. Of course evidence of collusion was found. For just for a few examples (there were so many contacts between the Trump campaign and Russians that listing them would take forever), there were all the false denials of contacts with Russians, there was the Trump Tower meeting followed by all the lying about it, there was the Manafort sharing of polling data with a Russian with contact to Russian intelligence, and there was Trump's behavior in Helsinki where he met with Putin with no one else present but translators, then he took the translator's notes and swore her to secrecy. Mueller might have concluded that the evidence wasn't sufficient to criminally prove collusion, but it is still evidence. Trump wasn't cleared of collusion - it was only that the evidence wasn't enough to level criminal charges, which have a very high bar. --Percy
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Absurd denials like yours are why there's no point for me in posting here any more. What utter insanity you believe, along with so much of the Left. The whole investigation was a fraud from the beginning yet Trump haters are apparently going to defend it against all reason.
"No evidence of collusion" is what Mueller said: "The long-awaited Mueller report is finally in, essentially echoing the president’s rallying cry for the better part of two years: No evidence of collusion." MSNBC Logo Apparently you and others know better than Mueller of course. So the collusion delusion continues. And the obstruction lie too. I wonder if sanity will ever return to politics. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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DrJones* Member Posts: 2284 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 6.8 |
he whole investigation was a fraud from the beginning
so the various criminal charges, guilty pleas and convictions were all faked?
Apparently you and others know better than Mueller of course.
Where did Mueller say there was no evidence of collusion Faith? The report hasn't been released, all we have is Barr's summary. Where in the summary are the words "no evidence of collusion".
And the obstruction lie too
what lie? According to the summary the report does not prove obstruction nor does it exonerate the president of obstruction. Being accused of something and being found not guilty does not mean that your accusers were lying.It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds soon I discovered that this rock thing was true Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world And so there was only one thing I could do Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On *not an actual doctor
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JonF Member (Idle past 168 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
"No evidence of collusion" is what Mueller said
A lot of news outlets got that wrong. According to Barr's letter, which is all we have, presenting a quote from the report:
quote:Lawyers are very careful in their choice of words. "Did not establish" does not mean "did not find evidence". It means the the evidence they found is insufficient to establish guilt beyond reasonable doubt in a court of law. It does not establish innocence.
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JonF Member (Idle past 168 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
He hasn't been found not guilty of any accusations.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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For what it's worth, I think both sides are wrong in the way they're arguing what this finding means.
Trump is wrong in saying that the accusations were groundless and a conspiracy of the Democrats and the Democrats are wrong to continue to claim that Trump is somehow guilty of something regardless of the outcome of the investigation. The fact is that he was investigated because there was evidence but that there was not enough of it nor was it compelling enough to lead to a charge that had a better than even chance of succeeding to convince a jury beyond reasonable doubt. That's what it looks like from this distance anyway.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
But no one knows what evidence was found. As long as it remains secret there is and should be suspicions. If there was no evidence then why is there a need to keep it secret?
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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JonF Member (Idle past 168 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
Seems acurate to me.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8513 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
OK, Mueller, a republican heavy-hitter but honestly impartial, says he didn’t find anything else he would argue in the present US court system. Fine.
Now what? The alt-right has just been handed a golden gift by their champion yet again. Emboldened actions, many of them violent, are going to occur. The gabfest that is the internet is where the emotional swing occurs. This is where modern politics is being made, and it is hyper emotional. Not a good thing. The alt-right will make use of that emotion to its maximum advantage. Watch what happens in the upcoming Trump rallies. How far lost to the right has our society become? Could this bozo get re-elected? What kind of society have we just lost? To be replaced by what?Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
Your summary makes it seem like it was Trump who was being investigated. The investigation was actually into the Trump campaign, so rewriting this a bit:
Tangle writes: Trump is The fact is that What is publicly known already tells us the Trump campaign colluded. For just one example, when Donald Jr. was told the Russians wanted to provide dirt on Hillary Clinton (accepting foreign help in an election is illegal), instead of reporting it to the FBI he replied, "I love it." Then he actually held a meeting in which he expected to receive foreign help in the election. Paul Manafort and Jared Kushner also attended. When the meeting came to light President Trump lied about the meeting, claiming the agenda was adoptions. Even just what's publicly known screams collusion. If there truly wasn't any collusion it sure wasn't for lack of trying - by last count there were 102 contacts between members of the Trump campaign and Russians. --Percy
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Sure, that's what democrats say.
Never-the-less, Trump will not face any charges and the democrats will bleat pointlessly about it. Time to move on. Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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Tangle writes: Sure, that's what Democrats say. I'm not a Democrat. You didn't quote anything I actually said so I can't know what specifically you're referring to, but only the brief last paragraph contained any opinion (and not much of that) - all the rest of my post was factually true. Trump *is* lying when he calls the accusations groundless and a Democratic conspiracy, members of his campaign *have* been indicted or pled guilty, and my account of the Trump Tower meeting was accurate.
Nevertheless, Trump will not face any charges and the Democrats will bleat pointlessly about it. Again, Trump wasn't the target of the Mueller investigation. It was the Trump campaign, and again, members of his campaign *have* been indicted or pled guilty, just not for collusion or obstruction of justice. But despite that, the Trump Tower meeting (among other things) was absolutely collusion, and the part of Barr's letter about collusion raises many questions, among them, whether Barr summarized Mueller accurately. And concerning obstruction of justice, Barr *was* appointed by Trump after he wrote an unsolicited 19-page memo arguing that a sitting president couldn't be guilty of obstruction of justice. We have the foxes guarding the henhouse. We need to see the report. Also curious is deciding not to charge collusion before all the court cases are complete. For example, Roger Stone, whose trial date isn't until November, may be found to have colluded with Julian Assange who in turn, should he ever end up in a US court, may be found to have colluded with Russia.
Time to move on. You're not specific about who you think should move on. As far as discussion here, that's each person's personal decision. As far as the Democratic candidates, they should probably keep their focus on governmental rather than political issues. As far as legal matters, there are so many unanswered questions, not to mention the investigations by the Southern District of New York into such things as conspiracy against the United States, false statements, mail fraud, wire fraud, money laundering, disclosure violations, and foreign contributions to the campaign, that moving on at this point seems extraordinarily premature. --Percy
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4344 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.9
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Never-the-less, Trump will not face any charges and the democrats will bleat pointlessly about it. Time to move on. Trump may not face charges, but other have and more may still face charges. All the facts and all the evidence from Mueller's investigation and all the others must be public so Trump and his cronies cannot continue to lie about what actually happened without it being pointed out publicly. Trump and his cronies have not behaved like honest, innocent people since the beginning of his campaign. They protest their innocence far too much and engage in malicious character assassination against everyone opposing or investigating them and they have corrupted every republican member of Congress to do their bidding. They are totally shameless.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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