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Author Topic:   Lots of big Public Opinion polls on immigration. "Open Borders" is even polled.
LamarkNewAge
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Posts: 1408
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 1 of 4 (837559)
08-05-2018 5:33 PM


The issue of "Open Borders" is getting asked. A Harvard Harris poll thankfully made the much needed jump. This poll was of adults presented with questions that had 1 of 2 options

76% opposed Open Borders

24% supported

But the same poll said:

36% favored allowing illegal immigrants to stay if they managed to into the country (the alternative was deportation and it got 64% support).

39% favored allowing women with children to stay if the got past the border (61% said to deport).

So almost 40% favor something of an (my words) "Open Borders lite" policy.

The same Harvard Harris poll did, however, display some hard core pro-deportation sentiment towards illegal immigrants in our country when we get around to seeing the answers to the survey after it offered the polled adults to choose from 2 options:

The choice of inflicting "deportation" verses allowing the undocumented immigrants to wait for a trial.

This was the disturbing part.

Deportation of illegal/undocumented immigrants was chosen by 55% of the polled adults, and 45% chose to let the immigrants wait for a trial. (for undocumented women with children, we still saw 53% support for deportation verses 47% allowing the immigrants to wait for a trial).

The Trump factor is no doubt responsible for the more hard core pro-deportation sentiment than we have seen in the past.

Link to Harvard Harris June poll in link below. It has a direct PDF link.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/...mmigration-positions

A CBS poll shows tougher pro-deportation views of the women and children.

quote:

Which of these do you think should be done with families trying to enter the U.S. illegally -
Release the entire family back to their home country together. . . . . . . . . . . .48%
Arrest the parents and keep the children in a separate detention facility. . . 4%
Arrest the parents but keep the children with them in the same detention facility.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11%
Release the entire family in the U.S. temporarily and require that they report
back for a hearing later. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 21%
Not sure . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16%


https://drive.google.com/...0JXQmxVNi1la0IzX1o2X0RTZ09j/view

But the absolutely massive poll causes me to think the those polled were simply too exhausted to properly think through the options. This was already question 32 and the questions were a bit too long IMO (Considering how many questions there were).

Things look much better for the pro immigration side when one looks at legal immigrants.

This comprehensive Pew poll is very telling as this poll has a long history.

http://www.people-press.org/...egal-immigration-into-the-u-s

The June 5-12, 2018 poll has a major shift in favor of maintaining current immigration levels.

Back in the 2001 the same Pew poll showed us that 53% of all Americans favored lowering the number of legal immigrants admitted per year while only 10% favored an increase.

In 2006 only 15% of Republicans favored increasing the yearly amount of legal immigrants, with only slightly more Democrats (20%) saying the same.

In 2006, 37% of Democrats and 43% of Republicans favored reducing the amount of legal immigrants per year.

Now, in 2018 40% of Democrats favor yearly legal immigrant increases verses 16% favoring lowering the amount.

Now, 22% of Republicans favor increasing the amount of legal immigrants with 33% favoring decreases.

As recently as 2015, Pew said the only 25%% of Democrats supported increasing the yearly legal immigrants.

Overall 32% polled (in a big poll of over 2000 people) in June of 2018 support increasing legal immigration, with just 24% favoring a reduction.

38% said keep it the same as now.

ANOTHER WITNESS.

This Gallop poll from June 1-13, 2018 backs up the Pew Poll plus shows us that nearly as many Americans as not support Sanctuary Cities (46% support while 50% oppose).

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1660/immigration.aspx

The Gallup poll is interesting in that is first asks people to choose from the exact same 3 options but then asks again with the adjective "LEGAL" added before the immigration noun.

Without specifying that immigrants are "LEGAL" , 39% of those polled said to keep immigration levels the same, while 28% said to increase the levels, and 29% said to decrease yearly immigration.

With the LEGAL adjective in this Gallup, the exact same 38% (like the Pew poll) said to keep yearly immigration levels the same), and 34% said to increase levels, with 25% saying to decrease yearly levels of immigration.

Trump seems to have turned most against illegal immigration (though the level of support for sanctuary cities (46%) and support for letting successful border-crossing illegal immigrants stay (36%-39%) verses being deported is moving ever closer toward being a position held by half of the American society) , but (more numerous!) legal immigration has a much better odor than ever before among Americans.

Open borders is even on the map.

Trump was a strong supporter of open borders as recently as 2013 (I suspect he still does secretly), as we just found out.

https://www.vanityfair.com/...onald-trump-open-borders-trade


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by LamarkNewAge, posted 03-20-2019 9:16 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

    
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1408
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 2 of 4 (849775)
03-20-2019 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by LamarkNewAge
08-05-2018 5:33 PM


43% of 18-34 year-old people support "open borders"
Out of 1447 or 1448 people, there was a question about support for "Open Borders" on page 68.

Here were the "yes" answers by total (24.45%), gender, age, race, party, ideology, Clinton or Trump voters, education, income .

quote:

Total 24%

Male 27%

Female 22%

18-34 43%

35-49 25%

50-64 16%

65+ 12%

White 21%

Hispanic 38%

Black/AA 28%

Other 26%

Republican 13%

Democrat 36%

Independent 22%

Liberal 46%

Moderate 22%

Conservative 10%

Clinton 34%

Trump 14%

ThirdParty 25%

College Graduate and Higher 27%

Some College or Less 23%

Urban 33%

Suburban 22%

Rural 18%

$75,000 + income a year 26%

less than $75,000 a year 25%

https://www.scribd.com/...-Harris-Immigration-Poll-June-2018


The issue has gotten attention.

Here are parts of three articles, which take this issue to consideration.

One is from a good guy. The second is from a so-so sorta-good kinda guy. The third is from a downright creep.

Here is the article from (what I would call) one of the "good guys"

quote:

January 16, 2019

Opinion

There's Nothing Wrong With Open Borders

Farhad Manjoo
By Farhad Manjoo
Opinion Columnist

The internet expands the bounds of acceptable discourse, so ideas considered out of bounds not long ago now rocket toward widespread acceptability. See: cannabis legalization, government-run health care, white nationalism and, of course, the flat-earthers.

Yet there’s one political shore that remains stubbornly beyond the horizon. It’s an idea almost nobody in mainstream politics will address, other than to hurl the label as a bloody cudgel.

I’m talking about opening up America’s borders to everyone who wants to move here.

Imagine not just opposing President Trump’s wall but also opposing the nation’s cruel and expensive immigration and border-security apparatus in its entirety. Imagine radically shifting our stance toward outsiders from one of suspicion to one of warm embrace. Imagine that if you passed a minimal background check, you’d be free to live, work, pay taxes and die in the United States. Imagine moving from Nigeria to Nebraska as freely as one might move from Massachusetts to Maine.

There’s a witheringly obvious moral, economic, strategic and cultural case for open borders, and we have a political opportunity to push it. As Democrats jockey for the presidency, there’s room for a brave politician to oppose President Trump’s racist immigration rhetoric not just by fighting his wall and calling for the abolishment of I.C.E. but also by making a proactive and affirmative case for the vast expansion of immigration.

It would be a change from the stale politics of the modern era, in which both parties agreed on the supposed wisdom of “border security” and assumed that immigrants were to be feared.

https://www.nytimes.com/...ion/open-borders-immigration.html


See the article for more.

Here is another good guy

quote:

Open the borders? Yes, but … - The Washington Post
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/01/17/open-borders-yes/
Jan 17, 2019 - New York Times columnist Farhad Manjoo calls for an American politician somewhere to be fully honest about open borders: All but eliminating ...


Those are the good ones.

Now the worst one you could possibly read.

Here is an article from a real turd. This guy should be punched (not literally).

This guy not only lies about the exact percentage of Democrats supporting Open Borders, but he actually seems to be a fear mongering type (while back patting himself for humanity and claiming to be an opponent of trolls and fear-mongers)

It is a long article.

There is a good bit between my quoted paragraphs, also after I stop quoting.

quote:

Homepage
Politics
FEATURED STORIES

Few Americans Want Open Borders— Democrats Included
Trump and his supporters often label his critics as believers in “open borders.” Most aren’t.
Robert A Stribley
Feb 22

The reaction is now predictable: Argue for treating undocumented immigrants humanely on American soil and you’ll find yourself accused of believing in “open borders.” As if it’s a binary, either/or position. You either believe in building Trump’s “Great Wall.” You believe in separating children from their parents at the U.S. border. You believe in removing undocumented immigrants from the country who have lived here for decades. Or you believe in “open borders.” It’s a blunt rhetorical trick. It’s crass. But it works. So it’s employed by everyone from the current president down to the many supporters and trolls who carry his water on social media.

Fear mongering, of course, lies at the heart of this accusation. The implication being that critics of Trump’s policies, Democrats in particular, don’t care about safety. They don’t mind who comes into the country. And in turn, that accusation comes coupled with insinuations that those immigrants sneaking across our borders are scary, violent people.

In fact, the vast majority of Americans—including most Democrats—don’t believe in so-called “open borders.” That’s not to say that no one believes in open borders. Certainly, there are people who do. But most don’t. And open borders is not a policy the Democratic party supports; it’s not part of their platform. Regardless of how many times Trump and his supporters may claim otherwise.

....

Trump repeatedly claims that Democrats “want open borders.” But nobody in leadership on the left promotes open borders. Nobody. Let’s clarify: not one or two people. Zero percent of the elected leadership of Democrats or independents have suggested the U.S. should have open borders. And there’s certainly no policy of open borders embraced by the Democratic Party.

In reality, both primary political parties embrace pretty strict immigration policies. And neither promotes anything remotely like “open borders.”

....

Recently, some conservatives pounced on a poll that said that 32 percent of Democrats believed in “basically open borders.” A few things to note: 1) These were not elected Democrats; they were voters, so that does not reflect the Democratic platform. 2) That figure still means the majority of Democrats polled were not in favor of open borders. 3) The question was vaguely, even poorly, worded and did not offer any particular definition of “open borders.” Including the word “basically” further muddied the waters. We don’t know how these respondents interpreted the term “open borders.” It’s entirely possible that upon further questioning, many respondents may have said they believe “basically” in open borders, but also in border protection and a fence. We don’t know.

https://medium.com/...orders-democrats-included-dba12884c133


He says it was only 32% of Democrats.

The percentage of Democrats is 36%

The June 2018 poll has almost 24.5% supporting Open Borders, and the opponents (65 and older only were 12% for Open Borders) are dropping dead fast. 43% of all 1448 people polled 18-34 support Open Borders.

So at least 25% of everybody, in 2019, surely support Open Borders.

I think that 34% of everybody 18-49 is for Open Borders

It looks like less than 15% of 50+ year-old people support Open Borders.

So 10% more under 50 seem to support Open Borders.

That could be extrapolated in a way that could perhaps make Democrats 47% supportive if they are under 50.

The poll does not go into that microscopic level of detail.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-05-2018 5:33 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

    
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1408
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 3 of 4 (849779)
03-20-2019 11:46 PM


Striking age dichotomy numbers in Open Borders poll.
There were 1448 people polled.

380 were 18-34 years old

340 were 35-49

431 were 50-64

297 were 65 and older

The numbers were striking:

Only 35 of the 65+ age group were for open borders (11.784%)

262 against (88.2%)

This is striking when you consider:

165 of the 380 18-34 year olds were for open borders (43.421%)

215 were against (just under 56.6%)

THE OTHER 2 GROUPS:

The 35-49 age group was an even 25% (exactly 25.0%) for open borders (85 out of 340)

The 50-64 group was 71 out of 431 (16.473%)

NUMBERS TO CONSIDER WHEN LOOKING AT DEATHS AND NEW ADULTS (18th birthday folks).

The numbers are 1093 opposed and 354 for Open Borders.

(the poll says 354 but the numbers add up to 356)

There will be about 20 of the 88.2% Anti-Open-Borders group vanishing every year.

There will be perhaps 22-23 of the 45% Pro-Open-Borders group entering adulthood every year.

So a group 18-2 opposed will die every year and be replaced by a group 12-10 opposed.

The net difference will be perhaps 6 less opposed and 8 more supportive (averaging 7).

The average difference will only amount to 0.5% more support a year if the death/adulthood entry factor is considered. Only about 5% more support (30% instead of 25%) over 10 years (by 2028), but there are other factors to consider. One is that immigrants becoming newly sworn-in citizens could be a group that adds to the hypothetical 30% support. That would still not add a large amount of support to the hypothetical 2028 "30%" support level. The second factor is the possibility that Democrats will actually give the issue justice, which means the party argues the case for more immigration (and perhaps even Open Borders itself) thus ensuring higher support among all age groups. That would make the biggest difference since the debate is totally one-sided presently.

Same-gender marriage was an example of an issue that got much higher support once more (younger especially) people were able to reduce the large mass opposing marriage equality. The equilibrium swung away from a critical mass of opposition, and there was a resulting run-away shift toward the other side ONCE ENOUGH BALANCE IN THE DEBATE ENSUED.

(The amazing thing is that there is already a much larger difference among age groups than any racial group difference. It seems that Whites and Hispanics only differ by 38% against 21% support. A 17% difference. Compare that to the 43.4 support among 18-34 year-olds vs. 11.8% support among 65 plus year-old folks. A much larger 32% difference. Hispanics are capable of seeing their support go up if the Open Border issue might not have an "anti-American" stigma which probably deters many of them from taking a Pro-Open-Border position on the question.)


    
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1408
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 4 of 4 (850111)
03-31-2019 6:57 PM


In These Times March 21 article: Idea on Democratic strategy in anti-Open Border time
The polls show a (still) tough climate when it comes to supporting Open Borders

The article is titled:

The Case for Opening Our Borders

Democrats cannot have it both ways.
If you oppose jailing and exiling people for crossing an invisible line, you must be in favor of significantly opening our borders. Fortunately, that’s fine.

BY BRIANNA RENNIX

MARCH 21 | APRIL 2019 ISSUE

About 10 paragraphs into the long article, this was said:

quote:

TOWARD OPENING BORDERS

In recent months, Trump and other Republicans have begun to wield “open borders” as a cudgel against Democrats, despite the fact that few (if any) Democrats advocate it. The Right is well aware that for most of the public, “open borders” triggers a xenophobic fear of invasion.

As a short-term political calculation, Democrats may be able to use a more neutral term like “decriminalization” until the public sees, in practice, that these fears are largely unfounded. However, any reforms Democrats advocate should follow abolitionist principles: that immigration restrictions have devastating human consequences that significantly overshadow the few, highly questionable benefits, and that we should aim to do away with as much of our immigration enforcement system as possible and in no way expand it.

An easy start is for Democrats to put forward a bill expanding humanitarian categories of immigration relief to encompass people fleeing violence, extreme poverty and natural disasters, and people with long-standing social or family ties to the United States. This is entirely in line with international practice; courts in places like Canada and the EU, for example, routinely use a “balancing test” to decide whether someone is deportable, weighing their immigration offense against other compelling factors in their favor. This approach is so commonsensical that many Americans believe it is how our immigration system already works, and that only “criminals” are deported.

http://inthesetimes.com/...open-borders-ice-border-wall.html


Glad there are people who are attempting to bridge the gap between where we should be and where we are now.


    
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