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Author Topic:   Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor?
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4414
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


(4)
Message 197 of 1385 (849762)
03-20-2019 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by Dredge
03-20-2019 3:31 AM


Dredge writes:
Tanypteryx writes:
Well, one benefit is it sure makes you insecure.
Nice try, but no cigar - evolution doesn't rule out the existence of God.
And there we have it, the only reason for your pathetic attempt here is because you clearly believe it really does rule out the existence of your god.
Your insecurity is showing.
I think I'm done. Your redundancy is pointless.
Edited by Tanypteryx, : No reason given.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by Dredge, posted 03-20-2019 3:31 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 212 by Dredge, posted 03-22-2019 12:47 AM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4414
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


(1)
Message 217 of 1385 (849823)
03-22-2019 1:24 PM
Reply to: Message 203 by Dredge
03-21-2019 3:10 AM


This post of yours completely destroys any credibility you may have had.
Dredge writes:
I doubt if ToE reflects reality as, for starters, it does a very poor job of explaining the many gaps,
Good grief. What gaps are you talking about? Be specific.
So, you are criticizing the Theory of Evolution because it doesn't explain everything? Really?
Dredge writes:
distinct lack of transitiionals
There is no "distinct lack of transitionals." Museums are packed with transitional fossils hundreds and hundreds of them. Thousands of papers and books are written describing new ones every year.
That you would say this shows you have a distinct lack of knowledge on this subject.
Dredge writes:
and sudden appearances of fully-formed organisms that are evident in the fossil record.
Do you even think about what you write?
In what reality would you expect partly formed organisms to be running around? Are you daft?
Dredge writes:
Therefore a mere theory is not knowledge, as scientific theories come and go, as you well know.
Right there you demonstrate that you don't know jack shit about any science.
There are several different, unrelated ways that "theory" is used today.
1. A theory is a wild-assed guess, used by uninformed people like you, who don't know anything about science.
2. In science, a theory includes all the evidence, all the observations, all the facts about that field of science. As new things about that subject are learned they are added to the theory. If evidence is discovered that contradicts the theory or part of it, then the theory must be abandoned or corrected. Scientific theories can be used to make predictions.
3. In physics, hypotheses are often called theories even though they have not been experimentally confirmed.
People who have studied science and understand how it works should know about these different usages of the word theory.
The Theory of Evolution has stood for 150 years. There have been numerous modifications and corrections, but anyone who refers to it as a mere theory has no chance of refuting it.
Dredge writes:
The fossil record is knowledge, but the theory of evolution that attempts to explain the fossil record is not knowledge.
No, the fossil record is evidence that life has evolved over the course of history on this planet.
Dredge writes:
And a belief, no matter how strongly held, is not necessarily knowledge.
This is true. That is why science relies on evidence rather than strongly held beliefs.
Dredge writes:
You may be 110% convinced that all life on earth evolved from UCA, but that doesn't qualify it as knowledge, as no one can demonstrate that it is the truth.
You have been repeatedly told that no one is convinced that all life on earth evolved from UCA, because there is not enough evidence to make that conclusion.
Why do you keep claiming that's what we think, even after we repeatedly say we don't?
I know this is your favorite delusion, but to keep repeating it is just plain stupid.
You have no credibility.
Edited by Tanypteryx, : No reason given.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by Dredge, posted 03-21-2019 3:10 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 249 by Dredge, posted 03-24-2019 3:54 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4414
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 256 of 1385 (849893)
03-24-2019 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 241 by Dredge
03-24-2019 2:30 AM


Dredge writes:
Sorry, I'm still not sure what your point is here. Are you trying to say, because you make use of "the evolutionary history ... recent common ancestors ... species history" of these insects and because you use "evolutionary processes and mechanisms", this means the theory of evolution has proven useful in your work? If so, you sure suffering a delusion.
Thanks for your opinion.
I was pointing out some of the ways we used evolution in our entomology work and that you are mistaken. You seem quite deluded and ignorant about science, and biology, and evolution.
Tanypteryx writes:
Gosh, your reading comprehension needs a boost.
UCA is not the theory of evolution, no matter how many times you repeat your mistaken assertion that it is.
Dredge writes:
Tanypteryx writes:
Wow indeed. I realize you didn't know this, but a scientific theory is based on the facts we know, not speculations, wishes, or beliefs.
As a result of my post (#182), I notice you changed your tune. You've gone from
(post 165)"The observable facts and principles of biology are the Theory of Evolution" (which is incorrect - ToE says all life on earth evolved from a common ancestor via a process of natural selection. To make matters worse, you are implying that a mere collection of facts adds up to a scientific theory, which is nonsense)
to
"a scientific theory is based on the facts we know" (which is correct).
Those two statements do not disagree and I have not changed my position. UCA is NOT the Theory of Evolution.
Dredge writes:
To make matters worse, you are implying that a mere collection of facts adds up to a scientific theory,
No I did not imply anything about a "mere collection of facts." I stated that a scientific theory contains all the facts we know about the subject and it never contains speculations, wishes, or beliefs, so there is nothing "mere" about it.
You have implied several times that there is "more" to the Theory of Evolution, but I don't think you said what the "more" is.
You seem to be confused that there are multiple definitions of the Theory of Evolution, but that is what happens when someone tries to distill a subject as complex as biological evolution down to a sentence or two. The definition is a brief description of the theory. The theory is all the facts, all the evidence, everything we know on the subject and no speculations, wishes, or beliefs.
Dredge writes:
Tanypteryx writes:
there is a distinct shortage of YEC biologists.
Dredge writes:
Did you know that there exist professors of biology who are YECs? So much for the importance of evolutionary theory in biology!
Tanypteryx writes:
Can you name any? And where do they teach?
Carl B. Fliermans, Professor of Biology,
Lane P. Lester, Professor of Biology.
I don't know where they teach.
Well done, you found a bunch.
What's your point? Are you saying they didn't teach their students about the Theory of Evolution in their biology classes? Are you saying they taught young earth creationism in their biology classes. Is this supposed to convince me of something?
I think my original statement stands, "there is a distinct shortage of YEC biologists."
Dredge writes:
Tanypteryx writes:
I feel sorry for their students if they try to work in any biological fields.
Why? The fact that YECs can become professors of biology proves that the theory of evolution is irrelevant and useless to biology.
No it doesn't. It is not evidence of any such thing. You are clutching at straws.
Dredge writes:
What is the point of teaching students useless information?
The goal is teaching them about all the evidence of the subject, in this case, how biology works, which is the Theory of Evolution. If their professors do not strive to do that then they are failing their students. If their professors teach creationist nonsense in biology classes they are betraying science and their students.
A scientific theory is not a wild-assed guess, or wishes, or beliefs, or speculations. Using "theory" in this way is leading to your confusion.
A scientific theory is supported by all the evidence, all the facts. The Theory of Evolution is everything about how biology works. In order to refute this theory you have to present something that describes the evidence more accurately. So far, you have presented nothing that accomplishes that.
In physics, there are scientific theories that explain how the Universe works, and there are also hypotheses that have not been experimentally confirmed that are also called theories. This sometimes confuses people who don't know much about science.
Your continued mistaken use the incorrect meaning of "scientific theory" destroys your credibility.
Edited by Tanypteryx, : No reason given.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by Dredge, posted 03-24-2019 2:30 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 289 by Dredge, posted 03-28-2019 1:19 AM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4414
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 257 of 1385 (849894)
03-24-2019 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 249 by Dredge
03-24-2019 3:54 AM


Dredge writes:
Tanypteryx writes:
no one is convinced that all life on earth evolved from UCA
Not true. There are in fact millions of people in the world who believe that all life on earth evolved from UCA.
But apparently it's more scientific to believe that all life on earth evolved from LUCA.
O good grief, I was talking about the people (I even said "we") involved in this discussion, but beliefs have nothing to do with evidence, no matter how many hold those beliefs.
Science is about evidence, not beliefs.
Here is what I actually said in Message 217:
Tanypteryx writes:
You have been repeatedly told that no one is convinced that all life on earth evolved from UCA, because there is not enough evidence to make that conclusion.
Why do you keep claiming that's what we think, even after we repeatedly say we don't?
I know this is your favorite delusion, but to keep repeating it is just plain stupid.
Dredge writes:
Tanypteryx writes:
You have no credibility.
You may be the only person on this website who doesn't believe I should should be awarded three honorary doctorates in evolutionary biology - one from Harvard, one from MIT and one from Oxford.
Proving my point, beliefs are not evidence. You are quite a bullshitter though.
I guess you didn't know that honorary doctorates are not awarded for knowledge or accomplishments in a field. You still have no credibility.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by Dredge, posted 03-24-2019 3:54 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4414
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 258 of 1385 (849895)
03-24-2019 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 248 by Dredge
03-24-2019 3:48 AM


Dredge writes:
Btw, what I mean by "evolutionary theory" is what I consider macroevolution*
* My definition of macroevolution is genus-genus evolution or evolution above the level of genus.
This demonstrates your ignorance of anything related to evolution. There is no such thing as genus-genus evolution or evolution above the level of genus.
Biological evolution is a result of individual members of a species mating and reproducing. Genera do not mate so they cannot evolve.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by Dredge, posted 03-24-2019 3:48 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by ringo, posted 03-24-2019 5:33 PM Tanypteryx has seen this message but not replied
 Message 290 by Dredge, posted 03-28-2019 1:25 AM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4414
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


(1)
Message 273 of 1385 (849924)
03-26-2019 2:10 AM
Reply to: Message 270 by Dredge
03-26-2019 1:26 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Dredge writes:
Tanypteryx writes:
The effects of climate change on natural populations and our domesticated organisms can often be predicted using knowledge of their evolutionary history. Despite denials by some ignorant creationists, scientists around the world are using the science of evolutionary biology to understand how life on our planet is reacting to a changing climate.
... none of which requires any knowledge of the theory of evolution.
And yet scientists around the world are still using it. Your credibility is kaput.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by Dredge, posted 03-26-2019 1:26 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 312 by Dredge, posted 03-31-2019 1:43 AM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4414
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


(1)
Message 384 of 1385 (850223)
04-03-2019 9:49 PM
Reply to: Message 382 by Faith
04-03-2019 7:35 PM


Empty denials are SOOOOO wearisome.
So is bullshit. I thought you left.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 382 by Faith, posted 04-03-2019 7:35 PM Faith has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4414
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 396 of 1385 (850246)
04-04-2019 8:37 PM
Reply to: Message 388 by Tangle
04-04-2019 3:30 AM


Religionists love picking at definitions because they can't pick at the facts. They think that by mangling the words, the facts will change. There are several ways of defining the ToE; they are all describing the same thing and they're all correct as far as they go.
Dredge's mind keeps exploding because we all are giving different definitions of the ToE. A lot of them are saying pretty much the same thing, but even when they are not, they are still are ALL CORRECT. I think I have given 2 or maybe 3 in this thread and none of them are contradictory. Biology is a huge subject and the theory also includes data from paleotology, bio-geography, geology and more.
Dredge seems to think that a definition of one or two sentences should include everything. He also mistakenly thinks the definition of the theory of evolution is the theory of evolution.
Dredge writes:
Tangle writes:
there are certainly practical uses for ToE.
You're more than a bit daft aren't you?
Maybe just a bit...
Edited by Tanypteryx, : No reason given.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 388 by Tangle, posted 04-04-2019 3:30 AM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 430 by Dredge, posted 04-07-2019 2:26 AM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4414
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


(3)
Message 450 of 1385 (850487)
04-09-2019 2:22 AM
Reply to: Message 449 by Dredge
04-09-2019 12:52 AM


Are you saying YEC scientists couldn't develop drugs and vaccines?
Are you saying YEC scientists used YEC beliefs to create drugs and vaccines?

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 449 by Dredge, posted 04-09-2019 12:52 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4414
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 476 of 1385 (850551)
04-10-2019 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 449 by Dredge
04-09-2019 12:52 AM


Are you saying YEC scientists couldn't develop drugs and vaccines?
Are you saying YEC scientists used YEC beliefs to create drugs and vaccines?

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 449 by Dredge, posted 04-09-2019 12:52 AM Dredge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 479 by Faith, posted 04-10-2019 2:09 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4414
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 481 of 1385 (850561)
04-10-2019 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 479 by Faith
04-10-2019 2:09 PM


Faith writes:
You call that macroevolution?
I didn't say anything about macroevolution.
Faith writes:
of course YEC beliefs are the basis for all science.
Your delusions are showing.
Faith writes:
Evos are really self deceived.
Says the person who uses a fictional book as guide to life.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 479 by Faith, posted 04-10-2019 2:09 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 482 by Faith, posted 04-10-2019 2:41 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4414
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


(1)
Message 510 of 1385 (850835)
04-15-2019 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 506 by Dredge
04-15-2019 1:47 AM


Re: Progressive Creation
Dredge writes:
RAZD writes:
Progressive Creation" has no predictive ability
It does, actually- PC predicts that there will be scientifically inexplicable gaps in the fossil record. This prediction is confirmed by the evidence.
So, what is your definition of your theory of "Progressive Creation?"
Is there a formal theory that is published somewhere or are you just making it up as you go along?
Is there a scientific publication that lays out all the particulars of the "theory" or are you the only adherent?
How does PC determine that any gaps in the fossil record are inexplicable by science?
Dredge writes:
This prediction is confirmed by the evidence.
What specific evidence confirms that any gaps in the fossil record are scientifically inexplicable?
Is your prediction that gaps in the fossil record can never be scientifically explained? If so, how specifically could you confirm that prediction?
Edited by Tanypteryx, : No reason given.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 506 by Dredge, posted 04-15-2019 1:47 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 560 by Dredge, posted 04-24-2019 1:49 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4414
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 528 of 1385 (851149)
04-20-2019 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 527 by Faith
04-20-2019 2:37 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
So all you have is bullshit and a weird sense of humor.
The BULLSHIT QUEEN, now that's funny.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 527 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 2:37 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 529 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 3:11 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4414
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 530 of 1385 (851167)
04-20-2019 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 529 by Faith
04-20-2019 3:11 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Yeah, I was hoping you would be impressed.
You are peddling the same bullshit you have always peddled, so no answer necessary.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 529 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 3:11 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 531 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 3:34 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4414
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 536 of 1385 (851191)
04-20-2019 6:40 PM
Reply to: Message 535 by Faith
04-20-2019 5:50 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
And we have shot it down every time.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 535 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 5:50 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 538 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 8:47 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
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