Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   What would a transitional fossil look like?
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 130 of 403 (850732)
04-13-2019 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by JonF
04-13-2019 2:57 PM


Re: Comparisons by Faith, the fun continues
Gosh a bald assertion. A really stupid one too.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by JonF, posted 04-13-2019 2:57 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by JonF, posted 04-13-2019 3:06 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 137 by Theodoric, posted 04-13-2019 3:22 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 132 of 403 (850734)
04-13-2019 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by JonF
04-13-2019 3:01 PM


Re: Thought Experiment for Faith
You are not reading the right statement. But that one is true too. The structure remains as described, it's the superficial parts that vary, and if the ToE were true the structure would change too. And I didn't say scientists would agree with me about this, just about the basic sameness of the structure.
What I've been saying is simple and true. Not worth talking to idiots about such things.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by JonF, posted 04-13-2019 3:01 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by JonF, posted 04-13-2019 3:10 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 136 by PaulK, posted 04-13-2019 3:19 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 140 by dwise1, posted 04-13-2019 4:52 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 142 of 403 (850745)
04-13-2019 5:24 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by dwise1
04-13-2019 4:52 PM


Re: Thought Experiment for Faith
I did say somewhere that my impression was that the genes for the basic structure did not vary much, so thanks for the confirmation. I showed no surprise at this as far as I know. "strong selective pressure" would explain it. And: I distinguish between different tetrapods, though apparently you don't.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by dwise1, posted 04-13-2019 4:52 PM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by dwise1, posted 04-13-2019 5:44 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 143 of 403 (850747)
04-13-2019 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by edge
04-13-2019 5:23 PM


Re: Thought Experiment for Faith
The three lobed structure is the part of the trilobite that doesn't vary. I don't know why you people can't read, but enough is enough.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by edge, posted 04-13-2019 5:23 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by edge, posted 04-13-2019 8:41 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 144 of 403 (850748)
04-13-2019 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by dwise1
04-13-2019 3:12 PM


Re: Comparisons by Faith, the fun continues
The chimp's being "our nearest neighbor" does not make its body structure as similar to ours as a cat's is to a dog's.
Again, enough is enough.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by dwise1, posted 04-13-2019 3:12 PM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by dwise1, posted 04-13-2019 6:38 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 150 of 403 (850776)
04-14-2019 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 149 by RAZD
04-14-2019 7:38 AM


Re: Comparisons by Faith, the fun still continues
You aren't getting it and obviously don't care, and neither do I any more.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by RAZD, posted 04-14-2019 7:38 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by RAZD, posted 04-15-2019 12:02 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 151 of 403 (850777)
04-14-2019 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by dwise1
04-13-2019 3:12 PM


Re: Comparisons by Faith, the fun continues
The differences in body structure remain telling. Sorry.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by dwise1, posted 04-13-2019 3:12 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 152 of 403 (850778)
04-14-2019 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by PaulK
04-13-2019 3:26 PM


Re: Thought Experiment for Faith
All those phenomena are what I'm calling "superficial, that is they are not structural.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by PaulK, posted 04-13-2019 3:26 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by PaulK, posted 04-14-2019 12:10 PM Faith has replied
 Message 160 by caffeine, posted 04-14-2019 12:55 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 154 of 403 (850780)
04-14-2019 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by dwise1
04-13-2019 3:54 PM


Re: Thought Experiment for Faith
I only compared dogs and cats, and pointed out the difference in rigidity versus flexibility in their respective skeletons, plus the fact that cats move with their heads below their shoulders but dogs' heads are above their shoulders. I also added behavioral traits as a differentiator. I have said nothing about tetrapods in general, which are too various to mention in this context.
This started with my suggestion that I would differentiate species from one another by their body build. All dogs have the same basic build, yes also bulldogs and whippets. You would know that if you bothered to think about it. All cats have the same body build, including both felis and panthera. Yes I was also talking about the genome because the body build is of course programmed in the genome.
Reading back through the thread might help some of the more reading challenged here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by dwise1, posted 04-13-2019 3:54 PM dwise1 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by caffeine, posted 04-14-2019 1:10 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 155 of 403 (850781)
04-14-2019 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by PaulK
04-14-2019 12:10 PM


Re: Thought Experiment for Faith
I'm talking about body build, skeleton, not organs.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by PaulK, posted 04-14-2019 12:10 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by PaulK, posted 04-14-2019 12:22 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 156 of 403 (850783)
04-14-2019 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by edge
04-13-2019 8:41 PM


Re: Thought Experiment for Faith
So, are you saying that since all trilobites have three lobes they are not variable enough to say that they evolved into separate species?
Well, as long as the three lobes are arranged as they are in all the trilobites, yes.
Would you say the same thing about tetrapods?
No because all tetrapods do not have the same body structure. There are many species of tetrapods, which all vary in many ways within their genome or body build. So as I've been considering it, dogs are a species; cats are a species. Etc.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by edge, posted 04-13-2019 8:41 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by edge, posted 04-14-2019 1:55 PM Faith has replied
 Message 217 by RAZD, posted 04-16-2019 4:01 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 158 of 403 (850785)
04-14-2019 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by PaulK
04-14-2019 12:22 PM


Re: Thought Experiment for Faith
Problem is YOU don't seem able to follow a simple argument.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by PaulK, posted 04-14-2019 12:22 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by PaulK, posted 04-14-2019 12:34 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 161 of 403 (850789)
04-14-2019 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by caffeine
04-14-2019 12:55 PM


Re: Thought Experiment for Faith
Structure basically means skeleton, basic build, basic structure; "Superficial" characteristics are like fur color, eye color, things that vary regularly from generation to generation, including such things as changes in overall size, or elongation of the body and so on: they don't change the basic structure, just stretch or compress it. A chart of all the dog breeds shows the same skeletal structure in all of them.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by caffeine, posted 04-14-2019 12:55 PM caffeine has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by caffeine, posted 04-14-2019 1:11 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 163 of 403 (850791)
04-14-2019 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by caffeine
04-14-2019 1:10 PM


Re: Thought Experiment for Faith
Sometimes. Do try to get the general drift. ALL the dog breeds are illustrated with heads high. MOST cat skeletons are illustrated with heads down in a walking gait. Dogs do NOT stalk the way cats do.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by caffeine, posted 04-14-2019 1:10 PM caffeine has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by PaulK, posted 04-14-2019 2:00 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 173 by dwise1, posted 04-14-2019 2:22 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 165 of 403 (850793)
04-14-2019 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by caffeine
04-14-2019 1:11 PM


Re: Thought Experiment for Faith
I've answered that a million times already.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by caffeine, posted 04-14-2019 1:11 PM caffeine has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024