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AdminPhat
Administrator
Posts: 1945
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-03-2004


Message 1 of 31 (850025)
03-28-2019 3:07 PM


Thread now open to all participants
This thread is basically random, though I propose that we try and discuss Christianity, Addiction, Healthy Eating, and Philosophy/psychology. Let's stick to those. Oh and Right vs Left politics in light of psychology, philosophy and/or end times Biblical references and external articles

I will be posting here as basically my internet Altar Ego, Thugpreacha.

Of course, you all know me as "Phat" so I will keep my Forum name.

Edited by AdminPhat, : added link for peanut gallery

Edited by AdminPhat, : restructuring thread.


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Thugpreacha, posted 03-29-2019 7:42 AM AdminPhat has acknowledged this reply

Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13143
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 2 of 31 (850036)
03-29-2019 7:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by AdminPhat
03-28-2019 3:07 PM


Painful Memories
Dear Faith: As controversial as you are and have been, you are an integral part of the history and archives of the EvC Forum. I joined on 12-02-2004, whereas you joined on 10-06-2001 and have over 30,000 posts--second only to jar and not by much. You should pass him if he stays inactive.

I want this topic to focus on our respective interests and opinions regarding religion, politics, healthy eating, and my pet topic of addiction. Though we may disagree on various things, I want us to present our cases articulately and respectfully as we dialogue among ourselves.

To start this thread out, I want to share with you all a powerful yet true story which I have never shared with anyone anywhere before.

It was 1998. I was 38 years old and was working at a grocery store named Cub Foods in Aurora, Colorado. We were somewhat busy and were the only chain in Colorado with no baggers....customers bagged their own. I was a fulltime checker with a set schedule...I worked from 530 am to 130 pm every day. I had a set routine in life. Each morning I would stock the candy near the registers and would wait on my regular customers, chatting about news of the day.
One hobby that I had at the time was going to the local youth detention centers and talking with troubled youth from gangs and from fractured families. I would share the love of Jesus and would encourage them with the wisdom that I had at age 38. In a way, I sorta had an addiction to youth culture and youths themselves, though I was no pervert nor Ephebophiliac...I truly loved these young men whom I talked with and I often got to know their families (unless I talked to them at a state facility) in which case my contact was strictly professional. God used me in many ways back then, and I attended church regularly and with fervor. I believed without hesitation nor reservation...similar to what you do now, though I was not as fanatically right-wing nor strict literalist that you are.

One day, we had several new hires join our team at Cub Foods. 4 of them are in my memory: Nichole, Bryan, Eddie, and Zach. All of them were 18, I believe and all of them were hired as cashiers...thus I allowed them to shadow me and I taught them the ropes regarding customer service, efficient working habits, and friendly folksy charm. I was especially fond of one of them. Eddie. Once, I clearly recall sharing a specific Christian Rap tape with him. He took it home and brought it back a week later, telling me that it was good and that he liked it.

I was pleased, but thought nothing of it--- Eddie's life was clearly in Gods hands as is all of our lives, right? Plus, I never worried about youth in Aurora! I was very naive in those days and thought that all gangs were only in the inner city. Surely the suburbs were safe, as they had been when I was growing up.

I distinctly recall that after Eddie listened to my tape, an event occurred which seared my mind and which remains very strong within my conscience even today. That was 1998, remember? 21 years ago.

Fast forward to 2019. March. I had one of my close friends over for socializing and watching movies. We became bored and I began to share some of my audio journals with my friend, who was actually in some of them. It was nostalgic and amusing to listen to how we thought in 2016 and 2017! As I browsed, my memory of 1998 was suddenly jogged. Feelings and emotions came flooding back into my mind and I began to cry. The tears and emotions were very real and were overwhelming. So I began to search the internet to pull up the story. The pieces suddenly fell into place, and I cried and cried.

So let me continue where I left off. I was first born again in 1993. February if my memory serves me. People here at EvC have never believed in being saved or in experiencing the literal presence of God as have some of us believers, but I don't need to convince you that its real. You know. I might think that you are a bit crazy regarding YEC and a Word for Word literal Bible, but I can assure everyone here at EvC that God is very real.

So in 1998, Eddie told me that he liked my tape. One of the songs was this one: Picture the lyrics, for I will post them under the YouTube Link.

The lyrics were not well understood by me at that time...all I thought is that the music would reach the youth of that time. And after all, Aurora was the suburbs, right?

It was maybe one or two weeks later. Maybe as long as a month. Dave Scott, one of my coworkers and I were standing outside in the parking lot chatting. We looked up and saw a trio of helicopters circling the neighborhood near our store. It certainly looked like an incident...for they were police helicopters!! So we watched in fascination before saying our goodbyes and going about our day.
The next morning, I arrived at work only to find everyone in tears! Bryan and Nichole were sobbing uncontrollably! Then someone told me that Eddie had died!! I began sobbing as well...only to then find out that Zach was also dead!

I was devastated! It all seemed so unreal! A week later, I attended the funeral home where a viewing was done of Eddie....perhaps Zach also. I remember a man in the room who was Eddies Father...I had seen him in the store a time or two. By then, I had read about the tragedy and what those police helicopters were doing that fateful day.

Jesus was alive though! That much I did know. In His perfect timing, He had given me the rap tape and it was destined that Eddie Morales, Jr. would hear that tape. The tape was oddly prophetic. Note the lyrics of that song that I posted above:

It's 3 in the morning
I'm awakened by the sound of the doorbell
Thoughts going through my mind
Pitch black, my eyes are blind
So I'm getting up to see what's happening
I'm hearing voices so I'm creeping slowly
Just in case they gets to capping
I walk asleep to the door
Next thing I know these fools jumping out of my bushes
and got me face down on the floor
Now I'm getting hit, kicked, and pistoled with
and the only thing that I see was all this blood flying in my spit
Oh my God they're trying to kill the T
And worst then that all these G's were smoked down on PCP
They threw me in my bathtub where I lie in blood
These homies must be thinking I live the life of a thug
They full of hate
Beating me with pipes and weights
And I'm…
.

Now, whats very scary and sobering is the method by which Eddie and Zach actually died, according to the news reports.

Aurora Labor day Massacre

Teen Booked in Colo. Killing Spree

This emotion has been buried within me for many years. I never thought that I would cry or feel pain at two boys whom I barely knew. Now I realize how sad and hurt that I was. I'm going to talk with the reporter who made this blog to see if they ever caught the suspect or if anything else that I never knew about it occurred. I need closure from this pain, but I know that Jesus reached Eddie and perhaps others also. I will never be silent about Him when an inner voice tells me to share Him with others. Comments?

Edited by Phat, : spelling


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by AdminPhat, posted 03-28-2019 3:07 PM AdminPhat has acknowledged this reply

Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13143
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 3 of 31 (850846)
04-15-2019 2:55 PM


Update. Faith, where are you?
Faith, this topic was meant to be a shared experience of two Sojourners on the road towards Salvation, Inner Peace, Mindfulness (In Christ) and social commentary. Where are you? Thus I will continue. The Painful Memories are painful no longer. Remember Frank Sinatra?
Lyrics To My Way:

quote:
And now, the end is near
And so I face the final curtain
My friend, I'll say it clear
I'll state my case, of which I'm certain
I've lived a life that's full
I've traveled each and every highway
And more, much more than this
I did it my way
Regrets, I've had a few
But then again, too few to mention
I did what I had to do
And saw it through without exemption
I planned each charted course
Each careful step along the byway
And more, much more than this
I did it my way
Yes, there were times, I'm sure you knew
When I bit off more than I could chew
But through it all, when there was doubt
I ate it up and spit it out
I faced it all and I stood tall
And did it my way
I've loved, I've laughed and cried
I've had my fill, my share of losing
And now,…


The main difference between Frank and myself is that I want to be able to say I did it His way. God is alive and His Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Creativity!! As some of you may know, I am launching a second career with my Thugpreacha TM Character on Facebook and YouTube. Stay tuned as I develop the character and brand.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Faith, posted 04-15-2019 3:31 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Faith
Member
Posts: 33638
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 4 of 31 (850854)
04-15-2019 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Thugpreacha
04-15-2019 2:55 PM


Re: Update. Faith, where are you?
I responded some time ago, Phat, saying I just didn't feel any desire to post on this thread. I agree with you, of course, that Sinatra's theme is far from Christian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Thugpreacha, posted 04-15-2019 2:55 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Thugpreacha, posted 04-15-2019 5:01 PM Faith has responded

Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13143
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 5 of 31 (850863)
04-15-2019 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Faith
04-15-2019 3:31 PM


Re: Update. Faith, where are you?
I will try my best not to insult or belittle you. I respect your world view though it is not mine, except for the Jesus as Lord and In My Heart and Soul part.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Faith, posted 04-15-2019 3:31 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Faith, posted 04-15-2019 5:35 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Faith
Member
Posts: 33638
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 6 of 31 (850866)
04-15-2019 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Thugpreacha
04-15-2019 5:01 PM


Re: Update. Faith, where are you?
Phat I just don't want to get into a debate with you about things I KNOW are the truth which you do not. That would only be futility from my point of view. I don't see the point. I didn't spend the last thirty years learning the orthodox truths of Christianity only to have to defend them against other Christians.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Thugpreacha, posted 04-15-2019 5:01 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Thugpreacha, posted 04-16-2019 4:14 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 8 by Thugpreacha, posted 04-18-2019 2:05 AM Faith has not yet responded

Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13143
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 7 of 31 (850900)
04-16-2019 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Faith
04-15-2019 5:35 PM


We Gotta Have Faith
What makes you think you will have to defend anything? How do you know I was not planning to defend you?? (let's just agree not to talk politics. Religion is fair game.)

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Faith, posted 04-15-2019 5:35 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Thugpreacha, posted 04-18-2019 2:31 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13143
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 8 of 31 (850963)
04-18-2019 2:05 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Faith
04-15-2019 5:35 PM


The Rant That Faith Will Not Like
Faith writes:

Phat I just don't want to get into a debate with you about things I KNOW are the truth which you do not.

This is clearly an egotistical assertion. There is nothing that you know about Christianity which I don't know. Sorry, but it's true. I may not have read every book which you have read,but I have read many which I doubt you have read either.

You may believe a lot of things I don't fall for, but that hardly makes you right.

You have the audacity to refuse to engage in what would have been a light-hearted discussion with me similar to how Pastor ICANT and I did but Your Ego simply wont let you share a stage or be challenged to think outside of your pathetic little box which you have sturdily built around yourself.

The sheer hubris of you posting 30,000 posts at a forum that does NOT belong to you--at which you consistently choose to ignore your opponents and carry on like a kid with their fingers in their ears-- has no excuse nor defense. Your behavior online is proof that you do not live according to what Christ expects of you. (None of us do, however.)

But I really don't even need you at this Great Debate.

I already know most of your arguments. Perhaps, God, Himself can and will silence me...but He may also decide to let you have it for the many years you have ignored us here at a forum in which YOU are the top prolific poster child.

Are you outraged at my "UnChristian" behavior? Good!!
Yes, I was mad. In a way I think I fight my own demons as much as any others.

I won't put up with any temper tantrums from you. If you really believe that I'm out of line, its high time that you got on your knees and prayed for EvC Forum rather than coming here and sharing your ugly prejudiced accusations. Even if you left the Forum forever, we have plenty of your material with which to start a discussion...and don't think I won't resort to digging it up through the archives.

The bottom line is that by continually refusing to engage any of us in dialogue, you have lost any battle you hoped to win here. Go ahead and slink away...your threats will not bother any of us in the least. Your demon is defeated here. It is now dead...Forever.

Edited by Phat, : proper formatting

Edited by Phat, : edited to reflect Gods admonishment towards me

Edited by Phat, : upon reflection. Left most of it the way it was, though.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Faith, posted 04-15-2019 5:35 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Stile, posted 04-22-2019 8:26 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13143
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


(1)
Message 9 of 31 (850964)
04-18-2019 2:31 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Thugpreacha
04-16-2019 4:14 PM


Jezebel Has Fallen
Great Debate Topic Now Open To Everyone. Be Ignored nor forgotten any longer. Jezebel has fallen.

quote:
6 ways to recognize Jezebel spirit
Insecurity
Rejection
Pride
Arrogance
Manipulation
Control
Jezebel can operate in a man or a woman. It is a manipulating, insecure, controlling, jealous spirit.

As long as you tolerate this spirit it is going to affect you!


To reiterate, this topic is basically open. Let's call it a free for all.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Thugpreacha, posted 04-16-2019 4:14 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13143
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 10 of 31 (851087)
04-19-2019 4:35 AM


Fighting Evil
Concerning Good & Evil:

WHY OPPOSE EVIL? IT’S A SIGN OF THE END TIMES!

We have joked before about the whole concept of a Rapture, but I believe that it is entirely within the realm of possibility. The Bible is, to me, not simply another book written by humans with an agenda. Granted some of the arguments at EvC have been logically persuasive, and I thank those who bothered to argue with me thus forcing me to sharpen my thinking, acknowledge the soundness of my critics, and causing me to question what I believe.

Let's address the basic argument that the author (or authors) of The Gospel Of John were redactors with an ulterior motive.

My first question is this:

  • What was their basic agenda? Whom were they allegedly trying to persuade? Why did they essentially edit the meaning of the other Gospels? And for crying out loud! WHY is it not popularly accepted within academia that this Gospel was inspired by a greater source? (Hint: Creator of all seen and unseen)

    Edited by Phat, : spelling


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

    Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
    In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
    ~Stile


  • Replies to this message:
     Message 11 by ringo, posted 04-20-2019 12:42 PM Thugpreacha has responded

    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 17516
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 3.2


    Message 11 of 31 (851140)
    04-20-2019 12:42 PM
    Reply to: Message 10 by Thugpreacha
    04-19-2019 4:35 AM


    Re: Fighting Evil
    Phat writes:

    The Bible is, to me, not simply another book written by humans with an agenda.


    Not even the parts you throw away?

    And our geese will blot out the sun.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 10 by Thugpreacha, posted 04-19-2019 4:35 AM Thugpreacha has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 12 by Thugpreacha, posted 04-20-2019 5:00 PM ringo has responded

    Thugpreacha
    Member
    Posts: 13143
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 12 of 31 (851177)
    04-20-2019 5:00 PM
    Reply to: Message 11 by ringo
    04-20-2019 12:42 PM


    Re: Fighting Evil
    I will admit that humans by nature all have an agenda. The Orthodox Christians themselves would call it a *sin* nature. Given that hypothesis, there would be grounds for an argument.

    I believe that God (Creator of all seen and unseen) chose that venue for His communion with humanity. Jesus was and is Gods character---as a human---thus *we* have no excuse not to relate to Him.

    Add by Edit: But of course, you will return again to your argument that it is the message that is important and not the messenger. Consider, however, that every message ever written had an author.

    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

    Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
    In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
    ~Stile


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 11 by ringo, posted 04-20-2019 12:42 PM ringo has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 13 by ringo, posted 04-21-2019 1:53 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 17516
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 3.2


    Message 13 of 31 (851252)
    04-21-2019 1:53 PM
    Reply to: Message 12 by Thugpreacha
    04-20-2019 5:00 PM


    Re: Fighting Evil
    Phat writes:

    The Orthodox Christians....


    You should stop using Faith's made-up terminology. Orthodox Christianity is a real thing and Faith is NOT part of it. Her doctrines are definitely NOT Orthodox.

    Phat writes:

    Jesus was and is Gods character---as a human---thus *we* have no excuse not to relate to Him.


    That's why I'm asking you: Why do you reject His message?

    Phat writes:

    Consider, however, that every message ever written had an author.


    And every one of those authors was less important than his/her message.

    And our geese will blot out the sun.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 12 by Thugpreacha, posted 04-20-2019 5:00 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

    Stile
    Member
    Posts: 3863
    From: Ontario, Canada
    Joined: 12-02-2004
    Member Rating: 1.7


    (1)
    Message 14 of 31 (851278)
    04-22-2019 8:26 AM
    Reply to: Message 8 by Thugpreacha
    04-18-2019 2:05 AM


    Re: The Rant That Faith Will Not Like
    Phat writes:

    [Faith] may believe a lot of things I don't fall for, but that hardly makes [Faith] right.

    Faith's beliefs, alone, should be respected.
    Any actions she takes because of those beliefs that negatively affect others - should be disrespected (as anyone's actions that negatively affect others should be.)

    It's not that Faith "falls for" her beliefs and you don't.
    All beliefs are "fallen for."

    Faiths, yours, mine, Richard Dawkins'... everyone's. Regardless of whether or not those beliefs include God.

    If it's something accepted based on evidence - then it's not a belief. It's a tentative position that will change as the evidence changes.

    If you have a belief and you think there's also evidence that supports it - it's still a belief.
    You may be using the "evidence you think supports it" as a crutch to hold it up, or as a trumpet to blast and pat yourself on the back... but, unless it is a "tentatively held position that will change as the evidence changes" - it is a belief, and you've still "fallen for it" as much as anyone else with their own beliefs.

    There's nothing wrong with beliefs - no matter how ridiculous you or I may find someone else's ideas. In fact, when used correctly, they can be extremely useful and beneficial.
    What's wrong is negative actions - and then the belief doesn't matter, as the action itself can be judged, condemned accordingly and even punished if necessary.

    I would suggest that disrespecting beliefs should be avoided.
    However - disrespecting actions you can show are negative - should be done and publicly denounced.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 8 by Thugpreacha, posted 04-18-2019 2:05 AM Thugpreacha has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 15 by Thugpreacha, posted 04-22-2019 8:36 AM Stile has responded
     Message 16 by Tangle, posted 04-22-2019 9:15 AM Stile has responded

    Thugpreacha
    Member
    Posts: 13143
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.2


    Message 15 of 31 (851281)
    04-22-2019 8:36 AM
    Reply to: Message 14 by Stile
    04-22-2019 8:26 AM


    Re: The Rant That Faith Will Not Like
    Stile writes:

    Faith's beliefs, alone, should be respected. Any actions she takes because of those beliefs that negatively affect others - should be disrespected (as anyone's actions that negatively affect others should be.)

    This makes sense. What you are essentially saying, in other words, is that everyone is entitled to a belief and/or opinion. Once one has solid evidence or facts, there is no belief, correct?

    All beliefs are "fallen for." Faiths, yours, mine, Richard Dawkins'... everyones. Regardless of whether or not those beliefs include God.
    Agreed.
    If it's something accepted based on evidence - then it's not a belief. It's a tentative position that will change as the evidence changes.
    If you have a belief and you think there's also evidence that supports it - it's still a belief.
    This holds true then, for the mythicists as well. An apologist such as Craig Parsons may present one basic argument while a mythicist such as Richard Carrier may present another. Both may be contrary to each other. My point is that one side has no more claim to facts than the other and until further evidence is found, the jury is still essentially out regarding the validity and truthfulness of scripture as well as any suggested motives for the Redactors of John and others.
    You may be using the "evidence you think supports it" as a crutch to hold it up, or as a trumpet to blast and pat yourself on the back... but, unless it is a "tentatively held position that will change as the evidence changes" - it is a belief, and you've still "fallen for it" as much as anyone else with their own beliefs.
    Agreed. I have an admitted bias towards proving that God is real vs trumpeting that He is made up and with all due respect to Theodoric I feel that arrogance can spring from the mythicist as well as from the Christian regarding these matters.

    Stile writes:

    There's nothing wrong with beliefs - no matter how ridiculous you or I may find someone else's ideas. In fact, when used correctly, they can be extremely useful and beneficial.
    What's wrong is negative actions - and then the belief doesn't matter, as the action itself can be judged, condemned accordingly and even punished if necessary.

    I would suggest that disrespecting beliefs should be avoided.
    However - disrespecting actions you can show are negative - should be done and publicly denounced.

    Sounds reasonable. You always seem to present these things in a way that I can respect and understand, Stile. Surely the Force is strong in you!

    Edited by Phat, : tidied up spelling


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

    You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

    Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
    In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
    ~Stile


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 14 by Stile, posted 04-22-2019 8:26 AM Stile has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 20 by Stile, posted 04-22-2019 10:14 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

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