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Author Topic:   What would a transitional fossil look like?
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 286 of 403 (851106)
04-19-2019 2:56 PM


I know this is old for most of this group but for those in the lurk-o-sphere who may not know:
If you understand what evolution actually does and how it does it and you really want to see a true example of a transitional between species all you need do is look in a mirror.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

Replies to this message:
 Message 287 by Faith, posted 04-19-2019 3:27 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 287 of 403 (851108)
04-19-2019 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 286 by AZPaul3
04-19-2019 2:56 PM


If you understand what evolution actually does and how it does it .
But you don't, nobody here does, you all have a lot of assumptions and imagination and can't possibly explain how you could get from one species to another. So you assert it and can't describe it at all, because it's impossible, you can only make absurd claims you can't prove.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by AZPaul3, posted 04-19-2019 2:56 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 290 by AZPaul3, posted 04-19-2019 4:15 PM Faith has replied
 Message 394 by Taq, posted 04-23-2019 12:58 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 288 of 403 (851109)
04-19-2019 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 285 by AZPaul3
04-19-2019 2:45 PM


I had the intellect in use for going on fifty years before I discovered the truth of Christianity, and now it's put to a better use than it was before.
It's all leftists here, and I'm not even sure what an alt-right is.
Anyway it wasn't a sunny day in church that changed me, I was changed by reading a ton of books on various religions, all kinds of religions, and ended up persuaded by the Christian books. When I finally went to a church I'd been a believer for going on two years, and it was a couple weeks before Christmas, probably not a sunny day but I don't remember, and they were singing Christmas Carols and the truth of the words hit me like it never had in decades of hearing them before, reduced me to a waterfall of tears at finally really getting it. The pastor made some kind of snarky remark about how this was a season of joy which I knew was aimed at my sitting there being a waterfall in his pew. Oh Joy to the World THE LORD IS COME, LET EARTH RECEIVE HER KING and so on and so forth, and I would wish anyone that same experience, minus the pastor's inability to grasp it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by AZPaul3, posted 04-19-2019 2:45 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 291 by AZPaul3, posted 04-19-2019 4:34 PM Faith has replied
 Message 296 by PaulK, posted 04-20-2019 3:35 AM Faith has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 289 of 403 (851110)
04-19-2019 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 231 by mike the wiz
04-18-2019 9:44 AM


AZPaul3 writes:
These are devil words.
I don't see why.
Oh, Mike. Come on, you're a religionists. You see the devil everywhere.
Are they devil words if we look at what makes a truck and a car steer round corners?
To your cousins of 200 years ago, most definitely. They were ignorant of the mechanics so the default fallback explination was always the devil. Just like today when a religious person can not comprehend the science of cosmology, evolution, geology, synecology, speleology, zymology they always find satan in there somewhere, even masquerading as god.
If we find mechanics that may look, "transitional" in certain vehicles does this mean cars also evolved?
Of course, Mike. You knew that. Take a look at a Model-T side-by-side with a Lamborghini Veneno. Obviously the latter evolved from the former. Any intellegent chimp can see that.
Gee, we would never expect that, after all I expected a spider to have echolocation when I compared it to a bat.
And you were wrong ... again.
And comparing a Indohyus with a Rodhocetus and a Balaenoptera just throws you into a tizzy doesn't it?
BTW, if you care to go back to the cambrian 600+- million years ago we can compare spiders and bats (protostomes and dueterostomes).
Gee I would never expect any similarities whatsoever in things that swim, there couldn't possibly be any use in God designing swimmers with similar designs because they work in water.
So that's why hippos and whales look so much un-alike? They both swim. And they are evolutionarily related and not all that far back. Your god didn't need to use any swimming similarities with these two. Seems evolution solved the problem without him. Good pick-up, Mike.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 231 by mike the wiz, posted 04-18-2019 9:44 AM mike the wiz has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 290 of 403 (851111)
04-19-2019 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 287 by Faith
04-19-2019 3:27 PM


... can't possibly explain how you could get from one species to another.
Blind religion.
The answer has been given to you many times but the scales cover your eyes. You do not want to see.
Micro-evolution times 100's of thousands, millions, of generations.
Presto, majico! From carnivora to felidae and canidae, from tiktaalik to republicans and democrats.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.
Edited by AZPaul3, : Yes, M'Love, another late change. Still no leftist conspiracy, though.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 287 by Faith, posted 04-19-2019 3:27 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 294 by Faith, posted 04-19-2019 10:26 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 291 of 403 (851112)
04-19-2019 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 288 by Faith
04-19-2019 3:36 PM


and the truth of the words hit me like it never had in decades of hearing them before, reduced me to a waterfall of tears at finally really getting it ...this was a season of joy which I knew was aimed at my sitting there being a waterfall in his pew.
It made you nuts. A cranial short circuit. An axonic disconnect.
Are you sure you weren't sitting on some exposed wires somewhere? What did this crowd feed you beforehand? Any pills, injections, hammers to the head?
You think it made you happy? You could have been so much happier remaining sane, but seems a bit too late for that at this point.
I know this breaks my bounds, but, in another life where you were not just smart but also sane, My Love, we could have been wonderful together.
Such a cruel, cruel universe.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by Faith, posted 04-19-2019 3:36 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 293 by Faith, posted 04-19-2019 10:16 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 292 of 403 (851119)
04-19-2019 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 275 by edge
04-18-2019 3:07 PM


edge writes:
mtw writes:
From my perspective have you any idea how tedious that is for someone with a high IQ and more knowledge than most evolutionists likely have? (I can show you my test scores if you wish)
Very intelligent people often believe weird stuff. And I do not recommend presenting personal information here as some YEC will casually dismiss it.
edge writes:
mtw writes:
Yeah but you're wrong IMHO. It is slothful induction fallacy to pretend that a tiny percentage is proven "to the reasonable person". I am a reasonable person, I score 95% on university level logic tests, and close to 90% on all critical thinking evaluation tests.
As I have said before, this is science, not philosophy.
edge writes:
mtw writes:
There he goes again with "a reasonable person". What goal must I score through to count as a "reasonable person".
It's not quantifiable. It has to do with an open mind and critical analysis skills.
edge writes:
mtw writes:
I say that it's simply that my standard of reason is a higher standard of critical thinking. My test scores agree. Shouldn't a reasonable person accept what objective test scores say about my intellect?
But it's not 'critical thinking', it is simple criticism that you practice. All you do is criticize the theory of evolution. You don't really have an alternative that you support in this forum.
edge writes:
mtw writes:
I don't know what else I can do to convince you that this creationist is indeed a high reasoner. Want my test scores for university level critical thinking and my scores for population genetics?
I mean what do I have to do to convince an evolutionist I am a reasonable person? We all know the question is rhetorical because we all know the answer; become an evolutionist.
Well, you could have an open-minded conversation here. That would be an excellent start. Simple, adamant complaining about evolution isn't working for you.
This is what I like about going to scientific conferences, all the smartest people stand up and tell everyone how smart they are. Yeah right.
Dunning-Kruger rides again.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by edge, posted 04-18-2019 3:07 PM edge has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 293 of 403 (851121)
04-19-2019 10:16 PM
Reply to: Message 291 by AZPaul3
04-19-2019 4:34 PM


...
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 291 by AZPaul3, posted 04-19-2019 4:34 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 294 of 403 (851123)
04-19-2019 10:26 PM
Reply to: Message 290 by AZPaul3
04-19-2019 4:15 PM


Gosh the usual gobbledygook. Because you CAN'T describe how to get from one species to another, all you can do is assert it.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 290 by AZPaul3, posted 04-19-2019 4:15 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 295 by dwise1, posted 04-20-2019 2:48 AM Faith has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 295 of 403 (851125)
04-20-2019 2:48 AM
Reply to: Message 294 by Faith
04-19-2019 10:26 PM


Gosh the usual gobbledygook. Because you CAN'T describe how to get from one species to another, all you can do is assert it.
And yet you accomplished exactly that in the evolution of the "basic felid kind". To which your only response was to frantically try to redefine the entire world in order to avoid your own discovery.
So now all you can do is to lie. So typical of creationists.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by Faith, posted 04-19-2019 10:26 PM Faith has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 296 of 403 (851128)
04-20-2019 3:35 AM
Reply to: Message 288 by Faith
04-19-2019 3:36 PM


Faith it is not hard to find examples where you are failing to use your intellect correctly.
Let’s take a gentle example. I will repeat the question I asked in Message 253
quote:
Anyone with eyes open should be able to see the evidence for the Flood everywhere on this earth. Everywhere, and not least in the strata found all over the planet that oddly enough are stacked in the same order everwhere they are found.
Please explain what makes it the “same order” and how that supports the Flood.
Can you actually answer that ? Or are you making a foolish error because you haven’t bothered to understand what you are talking about ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by Faith, posted 04-19-2019 3:36 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 298 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 2:43 PM PaulK has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 297 of 403 (851136)
04-20-2019 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 271 by mike the wiz
04-18-2019 2:53 PM


mike the wiz writes:
You say "convince us that you can reason at all" even though I can provide evidence I know a lot more about reason that you.
You need to demonstrate your reason in what you post here.
mike the wiz writes:
As for "reasoning away centuries of science" ... I accept genetic drift, speciation, allele frequencies. I in fact accept possibly about 85% of what mainstream science says.
Until you get that up to 100%, my statement stands.
mike the wiz writes:
So this shows that you are the poor reasoned....
I have not claimed to be a good reasoner. I let my posts stand for themselves.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by mike the wiz, posted 04-18-2019 2:53 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 298 of 403 (851148)
04-20-2019 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 296 by PaulK
04-20-2019 3:35 AM


Please explain what makes it the “same order” and how that supports the Flood.
The fossils of course identify the order of the strata, carried on the water of the Flood and deposited in layers of course.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 296 by PaulK, posted 04-20-2019 3:35 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 299 by PaulK, posted 04-20-2019 2:51 PM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 299 of 403 (851150)
04-20-2019 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 298 by Faith
04-20-2019 2:43 PM


quote:
The fossils of course identify the order of the strata, carried on the water of the Flood and deposited in layers of course.
Well you didn’t make the mistake I expected, but you forgot that the order of the fossil record - which is what you are talking about - can’t be explained by the Flood.
So it’s not evidence for the Flood - it’s strong evidence against your version.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 298 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 2:43 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 300 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 3:01 PM PaulK has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 300 of 403 (851153)
04-20-2019 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 299 by PaulK
04-20-2019 2:51 PM


No I didn't forget and I knew you'd be right there to argue against my claim that the Flood could account for the order. Well, it must account for it and perhaps the main argument for that is the irrationality of the usual explanation. As I've argued at great length, you can't get a mammal from a reptile for instance, although that is the explanation for their relative positions in the strata/aka the fossil record. And the huge variety of trilobites over what are thought to be hundreds of millions of years just adds another kind of argument: there is no evolution over all those hmy, just variations on the Trilobite species/genome.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 299 by PaulK, posted 04-20-2019 2:51 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 301 by PaulK, posted 04-20-2019 3:54 PM Faith has replied
 Message 302 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-20-2019 5:15 PM Faith has replied

  
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