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Author Topic:   What would a transitional fossil look like?
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17167
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 301 of 403 (851176)
04-20-2019 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 300 by Faith
04-20-2019 3:01 PM


quote:

No I didn't forget and I knew you'd be right there to argue against my claim that the Flood could account for the order.

You mean you knew that I would point out the fact that the Flood cannot account for the order.

quote:

Well, it must account for it and perhaps the main argument for that is the irrationality of the usual explanation.

Obviously your ideas about the Flood can be wrong (and are wrong) and there is nothing irrational in the idea of different creatures living at different times. Even Old Earth Creationists accept that.

quote:

As I've argued at great length, you can't get a mammal from a reptile for instance, although that is the explanation for their relative positions in the strata/aka the fossil record.

First, the evidence says that we did get mammals from reptiles. Second, while evolution makes more sense of the order - giving us reasons for the order - even without it we would still have a better explanation than you.

quote:

And the huge variety of trilobites over what are thought to be hundreds of millions of years just adds another kind of argument: there is no evolution over all those hmy, just variations on the Trilobite species/genome.

In reality the evidence shows plenty of evolution among the trilobites. The fact that you ignore the evidence doesn’t change that.

But thanks for proving that you are wasting your intellect.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 300 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 3:01 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 308 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 6:04 PM PaulK has replied
 Message 316 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 11:54 PM PaulK has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3280
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 302 of 403 (851180)
04-20-2019 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 300 by Faith
04-20-2019 3:01 PM


Faith writes:

And the huge variety of trilobites over what are thought to be hundreds of millions of years just adds another kind of argument: there is no evolution over all those hmy, just variations on the Trilobite species/genome.

This is still just as fucking stupid as claiming all insects are the same species.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 300 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 3:01 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 303 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 5:38 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 676 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 303 of 403 (851181)
04-20-2019 5:38 PM
Reply to: Message 302 by Tanypteryx
04-20-2019 5:15 PM


Insects are not all the same species but trilobites are.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 302 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-20-2019 5:15 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 304 by PaulK, posted 04-20-2019 5:42 PM Faith has replied
 Message 311 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-20-2019 6:22 PM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17167
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 304 of 403 (851182)
04-20-2019 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 303 by Faith
04-20-2019 5:38 PM


quote:

Insects are not all the same species but trilobites are.

Your wilful ignorance doesn’t change the fact that trilobites are many, many species.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 303 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 5:38 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 305 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 5:46 PM PaulK has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 676 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 305 of 403 (851183)
04-20-2019 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 304 by PaulK
04-20-2019 5:42 PM


Trilobites are clearly all variations on one species programmed by the trilobite genome, like varieties of dogs that all come from the dog genome.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 304 by PaulK, posted 04-20-2019 5:42 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 306 by PaulK, posted 04-20-2019 5:51 PM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17167
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 306 of 403 (851185)
04-20-2019 5:51 PM
Reply to: Message 305 by Faith
04-20-2019 5:46 PM


quote:

Trilobites are clearly all variations on one species programmed by the trilobite genome, like varieties of dogs that all come from the dog genome.

Given the variation in trilobites - as shown in previous discussion - that obviously isn’t the case.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 305 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 5:46 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 307 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 5:55 PM PaulK has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 676 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 307 of 403 (851186)
04-20-2019 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 306 by PaulK
04-20-2019 5:51 PM


Sorry, you can't refer to previous posts without repeating their contents. That's just obfuscation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 306 by PaulK, posted 04-20-2019 5:51 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 309 by PaulK, posted 04-20-2019 6:05 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 676 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 308 of 403 (851187)
04-20-2019 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 301 by PaulK
04-20-2019 3:54 PM


There is no actual evidence that mammals came from reptiles. And when you try to figure out how many trials it would take before you got an ear arrangement even remotely similar to the mammalian ear from the reptilian you ought to see that the sheer numbers defeat the whole idea.

Anyway, it's clear that the whole fossil record "evidence" for evolution is a pipe dream. The very idea that time, hundreds of millions of years of time, sorted itself into separate stacks of sediments containing particular life forms that fossilized, is nonsensical. One "time period" of millions or hundreds of millions of years, is identified by, say, nothing but sandstone, another by, say, nothing but limestone, another by shale, and some by mixtures of sediments, you find them illustrated and labeled as time periods, such as "Devonian" or "Permian" or "Jurassic" or whatnot so don't tell me I'm confusing the time scale with the geological column, they are thoroughly well confused all over the internet without my help. And of course the idea is utterly nonsensical. Not to mention that if you try to figure out how a given layer of sediment formed in the time period in question you can't do it, it's impossible.

Such nice neat layers too, with nice neat separation from the sedimentary layers above and below. Supposedly formed over multiplied millions of years. But I'm just a stupid creationist so you can pretend I'm not saying anything.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 301 by PaulK, posted 04-20-2019 3:54 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 326 by PaulK, posted 04-21-2019 2:06 AM Faith has taken no action

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17167
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 309 of 403 (851188)
04-20-2019 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 307 by Faith
04-20-2019 5:55 PM


quote:

Sorry, you can't refer to previous posts without repeating their contents. That's just obfuscation.

Except that you do that all the time. e.g. Message 535

Try Message 2269. Those two trilobites are certainly NOT obviously the same species.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 307 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 5:55 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 310 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 6:07 PM PaulK has taken no action

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 676 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 310 of 403 (851189)
04-20-2019 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 309 by PaulK
04-20-2019 6:05 PM


You're right, I'll try to shape up.

This message is a reply to:
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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3280
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 311 of 403 (851190)
04-20-2019 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 303 by Faith
04-20-2019 5:38 PM


Faith writes:

Insects are not all the same species but trilobites are.

Says the Silly Lumper.

There is a comparable levels of diversity in both Class Insecta and Class Trilobita. It is shocking that a great taxonomist such as yourself doesn't know that, after a lifetime of intense study of Arthropods!

It is interesting that we see similar patterns of variation on similar single features like appendages, mouth parts, and eyes, but also very similar levels of variation on the overall body plan. This indicates that different species of Trilobites were specialists in many different habitats, a pattern we see in modern and fossil insects.

I know you didn't know any of this, from what you have said, but that undercuts your credibility as any sort of authority on the subject. Just think how much better your arguments would be if you actually knew anything about the subject.

I can highly recommend Trilobite, Eyewitness to Evolution


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 303 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 5:38 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 312 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 9:33 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 676 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 312 of 403 (851203)
04-20-2019 9:33 PM
Reply to: Message 311 by Tanypteryx
04-20-2019 6:22 PM


You fail to take into account that the scientists who study these things are first of all dedicated to the ToE which colors how they think about all these things, and if the ToE is wrong, which of course it is, they are being misled. It isn't as if they approach their study without bias. I'm not so hampered. However, if I run across a seriously different trilobite body plan I may have cause to rethink things.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 311 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-20-2019 6:22 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 313 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-20-2019 9:37 PM Faith has replied
 Message 315 by edge, posted 04-20-2019 11:00 PM Faith has replied
 Message 318 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-20-2019 11:59 PM Faith has replied
 Message 403 by caffeine, posted 05-02-2019 3:27 PM Faith has taken no action

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3280
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 313 of 403 (851204)
04-20-2019 9:37 PM
Reply to: Message 312 by Faith
04-20-2019 9:33 PM


It isn't as if they approach their study without bias. I'm not so hampered.

There is a technical term for that, "STUPID."


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 312 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 9:33 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 314 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 9:39 PM Tanypteryx has taken no action

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 676 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 314 of 403 (851205)
04-20-2019 9:39 PM
Reply to: Message 313 by Tanypteryx
04-20-2019 9:37 PM


SO much time is wasted here with such silly word games that say nothing.

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edge
Member (Idle past 938 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 315 of 403 (851211)
04-20-2019 11:00 PM
Reply to: Message 312 by Faith
04-20-2019 9:33 PM


You fail to take into account that the scientists who study these things are first of all dedicated to the ToE which colors how they think about all these things, and if the ToE is wrong, which of course it is, they are being misled. It isn't as if they approach their study without bias. I'm not so hampered.

True enough. You are not constrained by things such as facts, evidence, principles ... or even reality.

However, if I run across a seriously different trilobite body plan I may have cause to rethink things.

I'm sure you won't.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 312 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 9:33 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 317 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 11:57 PM edge has replied

  
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