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Author Topic:   What would a transitional fossil look like?
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2497
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 311 of 403 (851190)
04-20-2019 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 303 by Faith
04-20-2019 5:38 PM


Faith writes:

Insects are not all the same species but trilobites are.

Says the Silly Lumper.

There is a comparable levels of diversity in both Class Insecta and Class Trilobita. It is shocking that a great taxonomist such as yourself doesn't know that, after a lifetime of intense study of Arthropods!

It is interesting that we see similar patterns of variation on similar single features like appendages, mouth parts, and eyes, but also very similar levels of variation on the overall body plan. This indicates that different species of Trilobites were specialists in many different habitats, a pattern we see in modern and fossil insects.

I know you didn't know any of this, from what you have said, but that undercuts your credibility as any sort of authority on the subject. Just think how much better your arguments would be if you actually knew anything about the subject.

I can highly recommend Trilobite, Eyewitness to Evolution


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 303 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 5:38 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 312 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 9:33 PM Tanypteryx has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2497
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 313 of 403 (851204)
04-20-2019 9:37 PM
Reply to: Message 312 by Faith
04-20-2019 9:33 PM


It isn't as if they approach their study without bias. I'm not so hampered.

There is a technical term for that, "STUPID."


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 312 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 9:33 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 314 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 9:39 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2497
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 6.9


(1)
Message 318 of 403 (851214)
04-20-2019 11:59 PM
Reply to: Message 312 by Faith
04-20-2019 9:33 PM


Faith writes:

You fail to take into account that the scientists who study these things are first of all dedicated to the ToE which colors how they think about all these things

What an odd thing to say. Why would you possibly think I don't "take into account" that these scientists are dedicated to science and knowledge and evidence? I read their books and papers for fuck sake.

Faith writes:

and if the ToE is wrong, which of course it is, they are being misled.

If the ToE is ever shown to be incorrect it will not be by you. It will be done by scientists.

Faith writes:

It isn't as if they approach their study without bias.

Yep, I know. Truth, ethics, curiosity, a life long quest for knowledge.

Faith writes:

I'm not so hampered.

Really? I'm surprised.

Faith writes:

However, if I run across a seriously different trilobite body plan I may have cause to rethink things.

Well, study never hurt anyone.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 312 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 9:33 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 319 by Faith, posted 04-21-2019 12:07 AM Tanypteryx has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2497
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 320 of 403 (851217)
04-21-2019 12:10 AM
Reply to: Message 316 by Faith
04-20-2019 11:54 PM


Faith writes:

The trilobite body is always the same body plan which is what argues for its being one species.

This is still a stupid argument. Insects always have the same body plan, but they are not all one species.

And what the fuck is your point anyway? Why are you arguing so stubbornly for a position that is so silly? What difference does it make to you since you will never study them anyway?


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 316 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 11:54 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 321 by Faith, posted 04-21-2019 12:17 AM Tanypteryx has responded
 Message 324 by Faith, posted 04-21-2019 12:33 AM Tanypteryx has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2497
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 322 of 403 (851219)
04-21-2019 12:18 AM
Reply to: Message 319 by Faith
04-21-2019 12:07 AM


Faith writes:

You are missing the point. If the ToE is wrong a lot of the study is going to be wrong too.

What point?

Data is being collected, observations are being made and recorded and often published. If it turns out the Toe is wrong, the data, the observations, the evidence will be how we know it is wrong, not because you say it is.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 319 by Faith, posted 04-21-2019 12:07 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2497
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 6.9


(1)
Message 323 of 403 (851220)
04-21-2019 12:30 AM
Reply to: Message 321 by Faith
04-21-2019 12:17 AM


Faith writes:

It makes the trilobite one Kind and contradicts the ToE which is the big splitter, creating apecies where there are really only variations built into a species genome..

So?

Sorry, I don't see how an unsupported argument contradicts the ToE. It's not like you have your own H.E. Gilbert Fossil Gene Sequencing Kit.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 321 by Faith, posted 04-21-2019 12:17 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 330 by JonF, posted 04-21-2019 9:06 AM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2497
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 6.9


(4)
Message 325 of 403 (851222)
04-21-2019 1:13 AM
Reply to: Message 324 by Faith
04-21-2019 12:33 AM


Insects always have the same body plan, but they are not all one species.

ALL insects? Dragonflies, beetles, ants etc? Or do you just mean all dragonflies, all ants etc? In the latter case I'd probably argue that they ARE all one species.

Yep. Adult insects.

  1. Three distinct body parts that may be divided into segments: head, thorax, abdomen.
  2. Three pairs of legs, each attached to a thoracic segment. The legs may be highly modified.
  3. Two pairs of wings attached the rear two thoracic segments. The wings may be highly modified or even lost.
  4. The head has 2 antennae that may be highly modified.
  5. The head has at least 2 eyes when eyes are present, that may be highly modified or even lost.
  6. The head contains the mouth which may have mandibles, a labrum, a labium, and two pairs of maxillae. All these mouthparts may be highly modified or absent.
  7. The reproductive organs are in the abdomen and may be highly modified.

There are more details, but this only fits insects. The guys who study Trilobites will have a similar list of basic characters.

In the latter case I'd probably argue that they ARE all one species.

No one cares what someone who doesn't know ANYTHING says. You are not a taxonomist. You are a bullshitter and you have no credibility.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 324 by Faith, posted 04-21-2019 12:33 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2497
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 6.9


(1)
Message 343 of 403 (851266)
04-21-2019 3:39 PM


Trilobites? What is the motive?
So far, Faith has only made one factual statement about Trilobites, "Trilobites have a body plan." She has not given us any other information that indicates she has any further knowledge about Trilobites.

Tangle Message 341

quote:
A religiously motivated woman looking blindly and uncomprehendingly at a computer screen is not going to add much to the work - except, as I say, humour.

RAZD Message 342

quote:
So funny to watch you wiggle around the actual evidence.

I just do not understand what motivates her to come here and post things that seem more and more unhinged and that even a child would see do not correctly describe the evidence.

She says she hates this place and all of us who disagree with her about almost everything, yet she stays. Is it some form of self imposed penance or is she the martyr character in her own fantasies?

I agree there is a humor element, but I don't think that is her intent. I guess it must be entertaining for her, but I don't think I will ever understand it.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


Replies to this message:
 Message 344 by Theodoric, posted 04-21-2019 4:17 PM Tanypteryx has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2497
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 6.9


(1)
Message 345 of 403 (851269)
04-21-2019 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 344 by Theodoric
04-21-2019 4:17 PM


Re: Trilobites? What is the motive?
You are probably correct.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 344 by Theodoric, posted 04-21-2019 4:17 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2497
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 6.9


(3)
Message 379 of 403 (851366)
04-22-2019 7:34 PM
Reply to: Message 376 by Theodoric
04-22-2019 7:04 PM


Re: SUPERSTITION DEFINITIONS OFF TOPIC
As a society we decide what those meanings are.

Socialism.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 376 by Theodoric, posted 04-22-2019 7:04 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 380 by AZPaul3, posted 04-22-2019 7:47 PM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2497
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 381 of 403 (851370)
04-22-2019 9:55 PM


What about Mollusca?
Mollusca is a fascinatingly diverse phylum.

Are they also one species?

quote:
Around 85,000 extant species of molluscs are recognized. The number of fossil species is estimated between 60,000 and 100,000 additional species. Wikipedia

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


Replies to this message:
 Message 382 by Faith, posted 04-23-2019 12:40 AM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2497
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 6.9


(1)
Message 391 of 403 (851385)
04-23-2019 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 387 by Tangle
04-23-2019 3:19 AM


Re: It makes the trilobite one Kind ??? Lolling on the floor
How about beetles? Darwin said that god had an inordinate fondness for beetles (coleoptera).

That was J. B. S. Haldane.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 387 by Tangle, posted 04-23-2019 3:19 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 393 by Tangle, posted 04-23-2019 12:51 PM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2497
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 392 of 403 (851386)
04-23-2019 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 383 by Faith
04-23-2019 12:46 AM


Re: It makes the trilobite one Kind ??? Lolling on the floor
Faith writes:

Tangle writes:

Science has identified 50,000 trilobite species. You appear to be (very) wrong again.


They are identifying mere varieties as species.

Repeating the same bullshit doesn't make it any less stinky.

Faith writes:

Body plan is what defines trilobites as a species all together.

If this was true, rather than your fantasy bullshit, that would mean that all mammals are a single species, all dinosaurs are one species, all birds are one species. Your delusions of your own knowledge are pathetic.

Faith writes:

They do complicated things with their spines but it's all of a sort that the genome itself would govern, not a new species.

They do complicated things with their spines? Oh good, you are finally giving us some concrete information...

"but it's all of a sort that the genome itself would govern, not a new species." What the fuck does that even mean?


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 383 by Faith, posted 04-23-2019 12:46 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
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