What would a transitional fossil look like?

Faith writes: Insects are not all the same species but trilobites are.

Says the Silly Lumper.

There is a comparable levels of diversity in both Class Insecta and Class Trilobita. It is shocking that a great taxonomist such as yourself doesn't know that, after a lifetime of intense study of Arthropods!

It is interesting that we see similar patterns of variation on similar single features like appendages, mouth parts, and eyes, but also very similar levels of variation on the overall body plan. This indicates that different species of Trilobites were specialists in many different habitats, a pattern we see in modern and fossil insects.

I know you didn't know any of this, from what you have said, but that undercuts your credibility as any sort of authority on the subject. Just think how much better your arguments would be if you actually knew anything about the subject.

I can highly recommend Trilobite, Eyewitness to Evolution

It isn't as if they approach their study without bias. I'm not so hampered.

There is a technical term for that, "STUPID."

Faith writes: You fail to take into account that the scientists who study these things are first of all dedicated to the ToE which colors how they think about all these things

What an odd thing to say. Why would you possibly think I don't "take into account" that these scientists are dedicated to science and knowledge and evidence? I read their books and papers for fuck sake.

Faith writes: and if the ToE is wrong, which of course it is, they are being misled.

If the ToE is ever shown to be incorrect it will not be by you. It will be done by scientists.

Faith writes: It isn't as if they approach their study without bias.

Yep, I know. Truth, ethics, curiosity, a life long quest for knowledge.

Faith writes: I'm not so hampered.

Really? I'm surprised.

Faith writes: However, if I run across a seriously different trilobite body plan I may have cause to rethink things.

Well, study never hurt anyone.

Faith writes: The trilobite body is always the same body plan which is what argues for its being one species.

This is still a stupid argument. Insects always have the same body plan, but they are not all one species.

And what the fuck is your point anyway? Why are you arguing so stubbornly for a position that is so silly? What difference does it make to you since you will never study them anyway?

Faith writes: You are missing the point. If the ToE is wrong a lot of the study is going to be wrong too.

What point?

Data is being collected, observations are being made and recorded and often published. If it turns out the Toe is wrong, the data, the observations, the evidence will be how we know it is wrong, not because you say it is.

Faith writes: It makes the trilobite one Kind and contradicts the ToE which is the big splitter, creating apecies where there are really only variations built into a species genome..

So?

Sorry, I don't see how an unsupported argument contradicts the ToE. It's not like you have your own H.E. Gilbert Fossil Gene Sequencing Kit.

Insects always have the same body plan, but they are not all one species. ALL insects? Dragonflies, beetles, ants etc? Or do you just mean all dragonflies, all ants etc? In the latter case I'd probably argue that they ARE all one species.

Yep. Adult insects.

1. Three distinct body parts that may be divided into segments: head, thorax, abdomen.
   
2. Three pairs of legs, each attached to a thoracic segment. The legs may be highly modified.
   
3. Two pairs of wings attached the rear two thoracic segments. The wings may be highly modified or even lost.
   
4. The head has 2 antennae that may be highly modified.
   
5. The head has at least 2 eyes when eyes are present, that may be highly modified or even lost.
   
6. The head contains the mouth which may have mandibles, a labrum, a labium, and two pairs of maxillae. All these mouthparts may be highly modified or absent.
   
7. The reproductive organs are in the abdomen and may be highly modified.

There are more details, but this only fits insects. The guys who study Trilobites will have a similar list of basic characters.

In the latter case I'd probably argue that they ARE all one species.

No one cares what someone who doesn't know ANYTHING says. You are not a taxonomist. You are a bullshitter and you have no credibility.

So far, Faith has only made one factual statement about Trilobites, "Trilobites have a body plan." She has not given us any other information that indicates she has any further knowledge about Trilobites.

Tangle Message 341

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A religiously motivated woman looking blindly and uncomprehendingly at a computer screen is not going to add much to the work - except, as I say, humour.

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RAZD Message 342

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So funny to watch you wiggle around the actual evidence.

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I just do not understand what motivates her to come here and post things that seem more and more unhinged and that even a child would see do not correctly describe the evidence.

She says she hates this place and all of us who disagree with her about almost everything, yet she stays. Is it some form of self imposed penance or is she the martyr character in her own fantasies?

I agree there is a humor element, but I don't think that is her intent. I guess it must be entertaining for her, but I don't think I will ever understand it.

You are probably correct.

As a society we decide what those meanings are.

Socialism.

Mollusca is a fascinatingly diverse phylum.

Are they also one species?

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Around 85,000 extant species of molluscs are recognized. The number of fossil species is estimated between 60,000 and 100,000 additional species. Wikipedia

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How about beetles? Darwin said that god had an inordinate fondness for beetles (coleoptera).

That was J. B. S. Haldane.

Faith writes: Tangle writes: Science has identified 50,000 trilobite species. You appear to be (very) wrong again. They are identifying mere varieties as species.

Repeating the same bullshit doesn't make it any less stinky.

Faith writes: Body plan is what defines trilobites as a species all together.

If this was true, rather than your fantasy bullshit, that would mean that all mammals are a single species, all dinosaurs are one species, all birds are one species. Your delusions of your own knowledge are pathetic.

Faith writes: They do complicated things with their spines but it's all of a sort that the genome itself would govern, not a new species.

They do complicated things with their spines? Oh good, you are finally giving us some concrete information...

"but it's all of a sort that the genome itself would govern, not a new species." What the fuck does that even mean?