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Author | Topic: What would a transitional fossil look like? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Theodoric Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: |
NO definitions used
How would we be able to have any conversation if people could just define words any way that they want? That you think you should be able to use definitions you just make up is another sign that you are nothing but a troll.I think I will use Faith's argument about defining words here at home. The next time my wife asks me to wash the dishes I will grab a beer and drink it and tell her the job is done. I will define the word "wash" as "drink" and "dishes" as "beer". How well do you think that will go over? Words have meanings. As a society we decide what those meanings are. You cannot randomly decide on your own definitions. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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JonF Member (Idle past 485 days) Posts: 6174 Joined:
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NO definitions used
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8709 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
Calling a person insane, "off her rocker," for holding the standard Protestant belief really ought to be cause for suspension from the forum on the basis of disrespecting another's "sincerely held belief." Now, see, isn't this wonderful? Exhilarating? Gets your blood boiling! What better can one possibly do on a Monday afternoon?Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined:
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As a society we decide what those meanings are. Socialism.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8709 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.0
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Socialism. Now that IS a devil word. ![]() Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4597 From: Oregon, USA Joined: |
Mollusca is a fascinatingly diverse phylum.
Are they also one species?
quote: What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 1761 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Are they also one species? Possibly, I don't know. I'd have to spend time looking at them as I did with the trilobites.
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Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 1761 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Science has identified 50,000 trilobite species. You appear to be (very) wrong again. They are identifying mere varieties as species. Body plan is what defines trilobites as a species all together. They do complicated things with their spines but it's all of a sort that the genome itself would govern, not a new species. As for chimps etc I already said why I consider their body builds to be too different from the human. And the question is still on the table how you get from the gemetic basis fpr chimp characteristics, i.e. the chimp genome that makes chimps and only chimps and nothing but chimps -- how you get from that to anything that isn't a chimp, by mutations or any other means. Mutations are only going to vary the gene they change, how is that going to get you from chimp to anything else? Are you imagining transitional phases? Where might we find any of those? Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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PaulK Member Posts: 18047 Joined: Member Rating: 5.0
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quote: Sure you did. Eg:
As I said, take my definition or shut up.
You were called superstitious, you denied it based on your choice of definition, and when an alternative definition was pointed out you tried to shut it down. But you don’t get to choose the definition someone else uses - even though you often try. That is even worse than making up your own definitions (or worse, pretending to have done so, as in the recent case of “species”).
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PaulK Member Posts: 18047 Joined: Member Rating: 5.0 |
quote: Really ? What actual evidence do you have ?
quote: But it doesn’t define any other species, Why just trilobites ?
quote: Aside from all the many differences you are ignoring, the variations in spines alone would indicate that trilobites had multiple species by normal standards. How do you know that the variations all come from a “single genome”, whatever you mean by that?
quote: i.e. you don’t use the “same basic body plan” criterion in that case.
quote: Mutations include the gain or loss of genes, and include changes to regulatory sequences. Regulatory sequences control when genes are switched on and off. Neoteny is an example, and one relevant to the evolution of humans. And let us note that nobody is suggesting that modern chimpanzees - either species - has evolved into anything else.
quote: If you are talking about the hypothetical future evolution of chimpanzees then obviously any stages will be equally hypothetical. If you are talking about the past evolution of humans, there are quite a number of species at least related to that line, including the australopithecines and the other species assigned to genus homo.
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Faith ![]() Suspended Member (Idle past 1761 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined:
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I'd rather experience the calming sense of justice of seeing you suspended.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9626 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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Faith writes: They are identifying mere varieties as species. They identify physiological differences and different lifestyles.
quote:Trilobite - Wikipedia Body plan is what defines trilobites as a species all together. Body plans are how taxonomy works. It doesn't make everything with a body plan that falls inside a generic description a single species. Insects:
quote: Are insect one species?
They do complicated things with their spines but it's all of a sort that the genome itself would govern, not a new species. The genome governs the body form of every organism ever born. How about beetles? Darwin said that god had an inordinate fondness for beetles (coleoptera).
quote: Single species?
As for chimps etc I already said why I consider their body builds to be too different from the human. The body forms are identical - head, thorax, arms, legs, thumbs etc. They do complicated things with their [arms] but it's all of a sort that the genome itself would govern
And the question is still on the table how you get from the gemetic basis fpr chimp characteristics That would be evolution Faith and it's been on the table for 150 years. [And, for the avoidance of doubt, chimps are modern animals. People did not evolve from chimps, but we do share the same ancestor.] Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1722 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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I don't care what you've "seen," the definitions I gave are my definitions. As usual this "discussion" has become a farce. Nevertheless for a while I will resist the impulse to leave this popstand and go on Inactive because the stupidities and misrepresentations do keep temping me back. And it is your fault that the discussion has become a farce -- you have made it so with your loose and variable "definitions" that defy reason, evidence and consistency. This is the result of your misusing words with known consistent standard definitions to mean something else that is neither standard nor consistent. See Definitions, Daffynitions, Delusions, Logic and Critical Thinking. for further discussion on the need to use proper definitions of technical terms. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1722 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
You are misusing the terms I use. ... How can that be when I specifically reference your usage -- here it is again:
quote: Note that "species (faith usage)" specifically refers to your fantasy definition of species and your inconsistent usage thereof. It appears that you define "species (faith usage)" for trilobites but then not use that definition anywhere else.
You do not get to use my terms to establish your own definitions and impute them to me. And yet they are your definitions, specifically referenced as such. You have caused the discussion to devolve into a farce, by insisting on your attempt to redefine words and then use your daffynition inconsistently.
Definitions, Daffynitions, Delusions, Logic and Critical Thinking. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9489 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: |
So you think you deserve special treatment. Why? Because you are defending your beliefs? When people oppose you they are defending their beliefs or lack thereof. Why should that be treated differently?
You attitude seems to be. quote: Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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