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Author Topic:   Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor?
Dredge
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 781 of 1385 (852072)
05-06-2019 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 626 by Theodoric
05-01-2019 8:05 AM


Re: Wrong about history as well as science
Theodoric writes:
Please be advised, just because you assert something does not make it true. By no standard is your bible an actual history. In order to be considered a document that recounts actual historical events it would need provenance and corroboration. That would just be the start to be considered a document reflecting actual history.
Many historical facts and events described in the Bible have been corroborated by archaeology. Look it up and learn.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 626 by Theodoric, posted 05-01-2019 8:05 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 782 by JonF, posted 05-06-2019 5:47 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 794 by Theodoric, posted 05-06-2019 6:45 PM Dredge has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 190 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 782 of 1385 (852073)
05-06-2019 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 781 by Dredge
05-06-2019 5:43 PM


Re: Wrong about history as well as science
And many have been falsified.
Getting some of it correct is not evidence that any other part is correct.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 781 by Dredge, posted 05-06-2019 5:43 PM Dredge has not replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1728 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 783 of 1385 (852074)
05-06-2019 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 777 by Dredge
05-06-2019 5:35 PM


Re: Scientific theory and "proof" vs validation/s
I suggest Karl Popper's grasp of the English language is pathetic - I understand very little of the above statement.
Few people really understand Popper, though creationists often think they do.
That's because he was a philosopher. He had no laboratory.
But his grasp of English was fine. Your inability to comprehend has nothing to do with that.
One hundred and fifty years ago, the Darwinian explanation prevailed in primitive minds, but Darwin et al had no concept of advanced aliens from outer space and no experience of UFOs, but these days we know better.
Some of us, yes.
The best scientific explanation for the history of life on earth is that it is the result of billions of years of aliens having fun with genetic engineering.
Yes, you said that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 777 by Dredge, posted 05-06-2019 5:35 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 784 of 1385 (852075)
05-06-2019 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 629 by Tanypteryx
05-01-2019 11:57 AM


Re: Progressive Creation
Tanypteryx writes:
Dredge writes:
What are the evolutionary ancestors of insects?
Earlier Arthropods, obviously.
Really? According to Gunter Bechly, there is no evidence whatsoever of evolutionary ancestors of insects.
Who should I believe - you or a world-renowned paleontologist who has three insects named after him?
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 629 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-01-2019 11:57 AM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 785 by edge, posted 05-06-2019 5:55 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 787 by JonF, posted 05-06-2019 6:03 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 790 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-06-2019 6:18 PM Dredge has replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1728 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 785 of 1385 (852076)
05-06-2019 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 784 by Dredge
05-06-2019 5:48 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
Really? According to Gunter Bechley, there is no evidence whatsoever of evolutionary ancestors of insects.
But you know that they appeared in the Cambrian Period, yes?
Are you going to ignore the opinion of this world-renowned paleontologist (who has three insects named after him)?
Everyone has an opinion and he is entitled to his. The question is, what can you bring to the table here besides the opinions of others?
You could do a little research outside the confines of your little creationist box, however.
Evolution of insects - Wikipedia
Edited by edge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 784 by Dredge, posted 05-06-2019 5:48 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 874 by Dredge, posted 05-08-2019 6:51 PM edge has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 786 of 1385 (852077)
05-06-2019 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 649 by RAZD
05-01-2019 4:55 PM


Re: Progressive Creation - no predictive ability - take 2
RAZD writes:
This was tested and validated with the search for (and discovery of) Tiktaalik: they went to a location and geologic age of rock deposits meeting the temporal/special matrix for a “missing link” (intermediate or transitional fossil) and there it was.
1. Er, please be advised that one lucky find is hardly statistically significant.
2. Fossils indicate that some kind of "evolution" has occurred over billions of years, but fossils tell us ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about what caused that "evolution".
3. Tikaalik and "evolution" can be explained by my "aliens did it" theory.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 649 by RAZD, posted 05-01-2019 4:55 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 788 by JonF, posted 05-06-2019 6:04 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 793 by Taq, posted 05-06-2019 6:43 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 904 by RAZD, posted 05-09-2019 8:31 AM Dredge has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 190 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 787 of 1385 (852078)
05-06-2019 6:03 PM
Reply to: Message 784 by Dredge
05-06-2019 5:48 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
The ol' "we don't know everything therefore we know nothing" gambit. Boring.
Gets harder and harder to cram God/aliens into those gaps, amirite?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 784 by Dredge, posted 05-06-2019 5:48 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 875 by Dredge, posted 05-08-2019 6:54 PM JonF has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 190 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 788 of 1385 (852079)
05-06-2019 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 786 by Dredge
05-06-2019 6:01 PM


Re: Progressive Creation - no predictive ability - take 2
The find was not "lucky".
Your aliens are compatible with anything and explain nothing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 786 by Dredge, posted 05-06-2019 6:01 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 789 of 1385 (852080)
05-06-2019 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 684 by edge
05-03-2019 8:28 AM


Re: Progressive Creation
edge writes:
But you do seem to know that it is complete, no?
Did I say that?
That is one reason why you can so glibly say that there are no transitional fossils.
1. There are plenty of transitional fossils. Every fossil is a transitional. But their paucity suggests very large jumps have occurred, which doesn't suggest a steady process of biological evolution. In others words, genetic engineering is a much better explanation of the evidence.
2. Fossils tell us ZERO about what caused evolution. The Darwinian explanation is not confirmed in the slightest by fossils.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 684 by edge, posted 05-03-2019 8:28 AM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 791 by edge, posted 05-06-2019 6:26 PM Dredge has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4413
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 790 of 1385 (852081)
05-06-2019 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 784 by Dredge
05-06-2019 5:48 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
Dredge writes:
Tanypteryx writes:
Dredge writes:
What are the evolutionary ancestors of insects?
Earlier Arthropods, obviously.
Really? According to Gunter Bechly, there is no evidence whatsoever of evolutionary ancestors of insects.
Who should I believe - you or a world-renowned paleontologist who has three insects named after him?
Well, I already know that you believe a lot of bullshit and your beliefs have no impact on reality.
Bechly has done some interesting work, but he ignores evidence. George Bush has a dung beetle named after him because he's an idiot, so having species named after you says nothing about the depth of your knowledge on a subject.
I also note that Bechly never includes his ID beliefs in his scientific papers on dragonfly fossils.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 784 by Dredge, posted 05-06-2019 5:48 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 877 by Dredge, posted 05-08-2019 7:01 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1728 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 791 of 1385 (852082)
05-06-2019 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 789 by Dredge
05-06-2019 6:10 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
Did I say that?
It would be the only way that your argument would be supported.
1. There are plenty of transitional fossils. Every fossil is a transitional.
Not really, but we'll let that go for a while.
But their paucity suggests very large jumps have occurred, ...
And the incompleteness of the fossil record makes that understandable.
What is the problem?
Unless, that is, you think that the fossil record is complete ...
... which doesn't suggest a steady process of biological evolution.
Who said it was steady?
Oh, that's right! YOU said so.
In others words, genetic engineering is a much better explanation of the evidence.
Fine with me. Where's the evidence?
2. Fossils tell us ZERO about what caused evolution.
No, but known mechanisms occur.
Your mechanism is unknown and unsupported.
The Darwinian explanation is not confirmed in the slightest by fossils.
That's because there's more to it than just the fossils.
You guys can't seem to get anything right, yes?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 789 by Dredge, posted 05-06-2019 6:10 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 878 by Dredge, posted 05-08-2019 7:13 PM edge has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10045
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 792 of 1385 (852083)
05-06-2019 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 772 by Faith
05-06-2019 5:21 PM


Re: Restating the question
Faith writes:
You have to SHOW that mutations can turn an ape into a human.
Would you agree that if mutations changed the human genome into the chimp genome that the result would be a chimp?
Faith writes:
You have to show first of all how they can change something that is characteristic of a species into something entirely different that doesn't belong to that species. That is impossible for starters.
If it is impossible, then how was the creator able to do it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 772 by Faith, posted 05-06-2019 5:21 PM Faith has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10045
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 793 of 1385 (852084)
05-06-2019 6:43 PM
Reply to: Message 786 by Dredge
05-06-2019 6:01 PM


Re: Progressive Creation - no predictive ability - take 2
Dredge writes:
Fossils indicate that some kind of "evolution" has occurred over billions of years, but fossils tell us ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about what caused that "evolution".
That's absolutely false. The observation of lineage specific adaptations and a phylogenetic signal tells us that the mechanism is vertical inheritance and lineage specific mutations.
Tikaalik and "evolution" can be explained by my "aliens did it" theory.
Aliens don't explain the phylogenetic signal.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 786 by Dredge, posted 05-06-2019 6:01 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 880 by Dredge, posted 05-08-2019 7:24 PM Taq has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9143
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 794 of 1385 (852086)
05-06-2019 6:45 PM
Reply to: Message 781 by Dredge
05-06-2019 5:43 PM


Re: Wrong about history as well as science
Based on that argument all of Harry Potter must be historical.
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 781 by Dredge, posted 05-06-2019 5:43 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4413
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 795 of 1385 (852089)
05-06-2019 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 774 by Dredge
05-06-2019 5:25 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Anyways, none of that weakens my argument
Actually, that is correct, because your argument couldn't get any weaker.
dredge writes:
There is no fossil record of evolutionary ancestors for the many novel phyla that appeared during and after the Cambrian explosion.
That's pretty vague. You need to provide a list of those phyla.
I realize you are unaware but those are just species that have been identified from Cambrian deposits.
Dredge writes:
For example, trilobites, fish and insects seemingly appeared out of nowhere.
First, trilobites, fish, and insects are not phyla classifications.
Second, fish and insect fossils have never been identified in any of the Cambrian fauna. You have been told this many times, yet you keep repeating it, which seems silly.
Dredge writes:
The best scientific argument for this evidence is genetic engineering performed by aliens
So, the lack of any evidence of aliens is evidence of aliens, looks like really sound science to me, 'cause you used science in the sentence and all.
Dredge writes:
(and not Darwinian evolution, which is little more than a glorified version of the nineteenth-century superstition of spontaneous generation).
Right, says a guy who believes aliens in a fictional book called the bible put people on the Earth 6000 years ago.
At least you're funny.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 774 by Dredge, posted 05-06-2019 5:25 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 912 by Dredge, posted 05-09-2019 7:20 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
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