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Author Topic:   Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor?
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 841 of 1385 (852222)
05-08-2019 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 835 by Faith
05-08-2019 12:53 AM


Re: Restating the question
Faith writes:
Mutations hardly ever change anything in the phenotype and when they do it is usually a disease.
Diseases will be removed by natural selection, so that is a moot point. The mutations that do change phenotype and are beneficial will be passed on at a higher rate and can spread through the population.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 835 by Faith, posted 05-08-2019 12:53 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 846 by Faith, posted 05-08-2019 4:31 PM Taq has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 842 of 1385 (852227)
05-08-2019 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 833 by Faith
05-08-2019 12:38 AM


Re: Restating the question
Faith writes:
Chimp genome makes nothing but chimps. Human genome makes nothing but humans. Dog genome makes nothing but dogs. Mutations don't change this fact, each genome continues to make what it makes. So there's no reason to think more mutations would change that fact.
Forgive me, I've forgotten how you rationalise all the other human species. Same genera. Was god just practicing?
Homo - close relatives of modern humans
Homo gautengensis”
Homo rudolfensis”
Homo naledi”
Homo habilis”
Homo georgicus” (thought by some to be an early subspecies of Homo erectus)
Homo floresiensis”
Homo erectus”
Homo ergaster” (considered by some to be an early subspecies of Homo erectus)
Homo antecessor”
Homo heidelbergensis” (sometimes called Archaic Homo sapiens)
Homo cepranensis”
Homo helmei”
Homo palaeojavanicus”
Homo tsaichangensis”
Denisovans (scientific name not yet assigned)”
Homo neanderthalensis” (sometimes called Homo sapiens neanderthalensis)
Homo rhodesiensis”
Homo sapiens
Homo sapiens idaltu”
Archaic Homo sapiens”
Red Deer Cave people ” (scientific name has not yet been assigned; perhaps a race of modern humans or a hybrid[27] of modern humans and Denisovans.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 833 by Faith, posted 05-08-2019 12:38 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 843 by Faith, posted 05-08-2019 4:24 PM Tangle has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 843 of 1385 (852233)
05-08-2019 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 842 by Tangle
05-08-2019 4:01 PM


Re: Restating the question
They're either humans God made as humans or they are something else God made to be something else.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 842 by Tangle, posted 05-08-2019 4:01 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 844 by AZPaul3, posted 05-08-2019 4:29 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 845 by ringo, posted 05-08-2019 4:30 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 849 by Tangle, posted 05-08-2019 4:59 PM Faith has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 844 of 1385 (852235)
05-08-2019 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 843 by Faith
05-08-2019 4:24 PM


Re: Restating the question
So she was practicing.
Didn't help.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 843 by Faith, posted 05-08-2019 4:24 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 845 of 1385 (852236)
05-08-2019 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 843 by Faith
05-08-2019 4:24 PM


Re: Restating the question
Faith writes:
They're either humans God made as humans or they are something else God made to be something else.
It's not very long ago that your lot called them "fake fossils".

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 843 by Faith, posted 05-08-2019 4:24 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 846 of 1385 (852237)
05-08-2019 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 841 by Taq
05-08-2019 3:36 PM


Re: Restating the question
Diseases will be removed by natural selection, so that is a moot point.
Again there are a lot of genetic diseases, a list of thousands I believe, that obviously didn't get removed.
The mutations that do change phenotype and are beneficial will be passed on at a higher rate and can spread through the population.
And as I understand this there are so few that fit this description the number is really negligible. And there is no reason to think they'd be passed on anyway unless they do something that gets selected but there is no reason to expect that. They may be "beneficial" only in the sense of doing nothing in particular but not causing harm. For instance the folded or "curled" cat ear. There is no reason to think it would have been passed on in the normal course of things. It only got established because people went to great lengths to make sure it got passed on.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 841 by Taq, posted 05-08-2019 3:36 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 847 by Taq, posted 05-08-2019 4:35 PM Faith has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 847 of 1385 (852238)
05-08-2019 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 846 by Faith
05-08-2019 4:31 PM


Re: Restating the question
Faith writes:
Again there are a lot of genetic diseases, a list of thousands I believe, that obviously didn't get removed.
What percentage of the human population has these diseases? It's a very tiny percentage, is it not?
And as I understand this there are so few that fit this description the number is really negligible.
So the physical differences between humans and chimps comes down to a negligible few genetic differences? Are there just 5 or 6 genetic differences between chimps and humans that are responsible for all of our physical differences?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 846 by Faith, posted 05-08-2019 4:31 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 848 by PaulK, posted 05-08-2019 4:47 PM Taq has not replied
 Message 852 by Faith, posted 05-08-2019 5:12 PM Taq has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 848 of 1385 (852242)
05-08-2019 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 847 by Taq
05-08-2019 4:35 PM


Re: Restating the question
It’s worth pointing out that most genetic diseases are rare recessive genes which are hard for selection to completely remove - but selection does keep them rare.
Some also have advantages that outweigh the problems e.g. being heterozygous for sickle-cell gives very little disadvantage, but helps resist malaria.
Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 847 by Taq, posted 05-08-2019 4:35 PM Taq has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 849 of 1385 (852247)
05-08-2019 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 843 by Faith
05-08-2019 4:24 PM


Re: Restating the question
Faith writes:
They're either humans God made as humans or they are something else God made to be something else.
Important to make your mind up I think. Seems a bit of a waste to me. But not much time to have the lot of them all running around together. Only one made it to the ark too.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 843 by Faith, posted 05-08-2019 4:24 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 850 by Faith, posted 05-08-2019 5:07 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 850 of 1385 (852249)
05-08-2019 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 849 by Tangle
05-08-2019 4:59 PM


Re: Restating the question
They either died in the Flood, which I guess they did since they are fossils, or they are descended from one of the three couples on the ark.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 849 by Tangle, posted 05-08-2019 4:59 PM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 851 by ringo, posted 05-08-2019 5:10 PM Faith has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 851 of 1385 (852250)
05-08-2019 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 850 by Faith
05-08-2019 5:07 PM


Re: Restating the question
Faith writes:
Eight human beings made it to the ark, three couples capable of reproducing, and any of those on your list that are true humans came from those three couples.
Wouldn't it make more sense to put them before the flood? Wiped out by the flood?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 850 by Faith, posted 05-08-2019 5:07 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 853 by Faith, posted 05-08-2019 5:13 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 852 of 1385 (852253)
05-08-2019 5:12 PM
Reply to: Message 847 by Taq
05-08-2019 4:35 PM


Re: Restating the question
Since humans are not descended from any ape at all there is no connection whatever between the genomes.
Fortunately those thousands of diseases are rare, yes. So far.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 847 by Taq, posted 05-08-2019 4:35 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 854 by Taq, posted 05-08-2019 5:23 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 853 of 1385 (852254)
05-08-2019 5:13 PM
Reply to: Message 851 by ringo
05-08-2019 5:10 PM


Re: Restating the question
Yes I realized that after I wrote what you quoted and changed the post.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 851 by ringo, posted 05-08-2019 5:10 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 855 by Tangle, posted 05-08-2019 5:37 PM Faith has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 854 of 1385 (852257)
05-08-2019 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 852 by Faith
05-08-2019 5:12 PM


Re: Restating the question
Faith writes:
Since humans are not descended from any ape at all there is no connection whatever between the genomes.
There is a connection. It's the 98% of the DNA sequences that is the same. For the purposes of what I am asking you, it doesn't matter if this is a result of common descent or creation because DNA acts the same no matter how it got there.
You are saying that if a base is changed, whether by a mutation or by a creator, that it will either be neutral or deleterious, and we can ignore any beneficial changes because those are few if any. If this is true, then we have to ask how a creator can create two separate genomes that differ by 40 million differences while sharing 98% of the rest and not have this result in millions of diseases. Also, how can this result in any beneficial differences between the species if differences cause so many diseases, according to you?
Even if we assume creation, what you are saying can't be true.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 852 by Faith, posted 05-08-2019 5:12 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 857 by Faith, posted 05-08-2019 5:43 PM Taq has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 855 of 1385 (852260)
05-08-2019 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 853 by Faith
05-08-2019 5:13 PM


Re: Restating the question
Faith writes:
Yes I realized that after I wrote what you quoted and changed the post.
Not that you're making this up as you go along...
If chimps have somewhere around 95-98% human DNA, how much do you think, say, Homo habilis had?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 853 by Faith, posted 05-08-2019 5:13 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 858 by Faith, posted 05-08-2019 5:48 PM Tangle has replied
 Message 995 by Dredge, posted 05-13-2019 8:29 PM Tangle has not replied

  
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