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Author Topic:   Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor?
JonF
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Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 901 of 1385 (852335)
05-08-2019 8:28 PM
Reply to: Message 899 by AZPaul3
05-08-2019 8:22 PM


Yeah, there is that. But the thread is still based on a viewpoint he's explicitly rejected.

This message is a reply to:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 902 of 1385 (852336)
05-08-2019 9:39 PM
Reply to: Message 899 by AZPaul3
05-08-2019 8:22 PM


This thread should have been closed long ago, when it became obvious that he only started it to troll and spout religious inanities.
This thread is truly Bonfire of the Inanities.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 299 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(2)
Message 903 of 1385 (852345)
05-09-2019 8:13 AM
Reply to: Message 807 by Faith
05-07-2019 1:02 PM


Genome is not cast in stone
But that is not really what I'm saying. My point is that the genome can only make the creature it belongs to, so THEREFORE to get something entirely different which the ToE says is possible, at least over millions of years, the genome itself has to change and that is ...

... exactly what actually happens. The genome evolves as the species evolves, it is not fixed and immutable as you seem to think.

It's that simple.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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RAZD
Member (Idle past 299 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 904 of 1385 (852346)
05-09-2019 8:31 AM
Reply to: Message 786 by Dredge
05-06-2019 6:01 PM


Progressive Creation and Aliens (oh my) - no predictive ability - take 2
1. Er, please be advised that one lucky find is hardly statistically significant.

... except that it confirms the prediction made by the Theory of Evolution.

2. Fossils indicate that some kind of "evolution" has occurred over billions of years, but fossils tell us ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about what caused that "evolution".

... except that each fossil currently valides the ToE when it fits into the temporal/spatial matrix and the explanation provided by the ToE for getting from one spcies to another via known mechanisms of evolution.

Means, motive and opportunity:

  • Means: known mechanisms of evolution observed and documented to cause changes in living species.
  • Motive: to survive and reproduce.
  • Opportunity: the evidence for evolution in the natural history of the earth has only been found where populations are in close proximity to ancestor and descendant populations, and showing intermediate characteristics between ancestor and descendant populations.

3. Tikaalik and "evolution" can be explained by my "aliens did it" theory.

Which is just another way of saying "god-did-it" while ignoring the weight of evidence that ccurrently onfirms that the ToE provides a complete explanation of the fossil record, including the constraints of the ToE. Neither aliens nor "progressive creation" provide as complete an explanation of all facets of the evidence.

Curious that aliens and gods only created evidence that completely mimics what the process of evolution would produce and only what the ToE predicts would occur.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 786 by Dredge, posted 05-06-2019 6:01 PM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 299 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 905 of 1385 (852349)
05-09-2019 9:07 AM
Reply to: Message 862 by Tangle
05-08-2019 6:01 PM


Comparing Homo sapiens, Homo neanderthalis and Pan troglodytes
Well we know he was an ape because we are too, but we also know that unlike, say, a chimp, he was also Homo. So he was human, though not of the same species as us. My guess is that his DNA is going to be pretty close but not exact. Because obviously if it was exact, he'd be H. sapiens, not H. habilis.

We already know of differences between Homo sapiens and Homo neanderthalis as currently sequenced. We also have some evidence of Denisovian DNA and some of the other Homo species.

So we can compare the degree of differences with those of chimps and see what the evidence shows.

IIRC this was done a year ago or two ago. The result I remember was that a triangle representing the degrees of differences was formed with the three sides being:

  1. Homo sapiens to Homo neanderthalis
  2. Homo neanderthalis to Pan troglodytes
  3. Homo sapiens to Pan troglodytes

Where (1) showed lesser degree of differences than either (2) or (3) and that (2) and (3) were approximately of equal degree. This fits with ToE nested hierarchy predictions.

Perhaps someone can dig up the old posts on this (Moose?)

We can then introduce real numbers into this discussion with Faith and see how far she can take it.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 299 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(2)
Message 906 of 1385 (852351)
05-09-2019 9:24 AM
Reply to: Message 882 by Tanypteryx
05-08-2019 7:32 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
Dredge writes:

Tanypteryx writes:

Well, I already know that you believe a lot of bullshit

An ad hominem attack is not science.

Well, you have not presented any science, so I was just describing what you have presented so far.

Telling the truth is not an ad hominem ... just a statement of fact.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 882 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-08-2019 7:32 PM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply

  
Taq
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Posts: 8482
Joined: 03-06-2009


(1)
Message 907 of 1385 (852355)
05-09-2019 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 880 by Dredge
05-08-2019 7:24 PM


Re: Progressive Creation - no predictive ability - take 2
Dredge writes:


That's one possible explanation … but one that can't be tested and confirmed.

It can be confirmed by both the pattern of physical differences and similarities and the same for genetic differences and similarities. We find a correlation between the nested hierarchies in both sets of data which confirms the mechanisms of vertical inheritance and random mutations.

All things considered the evidence can be
best explained by genetic engineering performed by aliens.

Why would aliens produce a nested hierarchy? You need to explain this.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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vimesey
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Posts: 1245
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 5.4


(2)
Message 908 of 1385 (852358)
05-09-2019 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 907 by Taq
05-09-2019 11:40 AM


Re: Progressive Creation - no predictive ability - take 2
Why would aliens produce a nested hierarchy?

It was Slartibartfast pissing around after he got bored with fjords ;-)


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
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edge
Member (Idle past 600 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


(6)
Message 909 of 1385 (852360)
05-09-2019 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 899 by AZPaul3
05-08-2019 8:22 PM


Oh, I don't know about that. I'm enjoying this thread. This kid's hilarious.

Yes, the entertainment factor should not be minimized. But we should understand that we are being trolled. No need for umbrage.

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 Message 899 by AZPaul3, posted 05-08-2019 8:22 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1295
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 910 of 1385 (852381)
05-09-2019 7:07 PM
Reply to: Message 760 by Stile
05-06-2019 1:28 PM


Stile writes:

I thought you were asking about UCA in applied biology?
What part of applied biology involves evolving blind fish?
So - of course I won't answer this question, this question has nothing to do with what we're talking about (UCA and applied biology.)
Unless you're about to share the blind-fish-creation studies in applied biology?


Try again … you conveniently ignored that part of my question that says "antibiotic resistance". Explain why it's necessary to accept that all life on earth shares a common ancestor in order to understand antibiotic resistance.

Therefore - according to me, any YECs (or any non-YECs, even) developing medicine without the idea of UCA behind them - wouldn't be any good at it - they would be known for being "useless" in developing drugs and vaccines.

It's easy to make a stupid, baseless claim; it's not so easy to back it up with a sane explanation or evidence … but have a go.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 760 by Stile, posted 05-06-2019 1:28 PM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
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Dredge
Member
Posts: 1295
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 911 of 1385 (852382)
05-09-2019 7:13 PM
Reply to: Message 780 by edge
05-06-2019 5:41 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
edge writes:

And an explanation of why the Edicaran-type of fauna could not be precursors to the Cambrian ones.


I don't recall saying that "Ediacaran-type of fauna could not be precursors to the Cambrian ones." However, I do recall saying there is no evidence of evolutionary links between Ediacaran life-forms and the animals that appear in the Cambrian.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Dredge
Member
Posts: 1295
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 912 of 1385 (852383)
05-09-2019 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 795 by Tanypteryx
05-06-2019 9:12 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Tanypteryx writes:

Right, says a guy who believes aliens in a fictional book called the bible put people on the Earth 6000 years ago.


No, that's incorrect. I said nothing about believing in aliens - in fact, I definitely don't believe in aliens. I said aliens performing genetic engineering is the best scientific explanation for the fossil record. I also said that science can't explain the fossil record.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


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Replies to this message:
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edge
Member (Idle past 600 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 913 of 1385 (852384)
05-09-2019 7:25 PM
Reply to: Message 911 by Dredge
05-09-2019 7:13 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
I don't recall saying that "Ediacaran-type of fauna could not be precursors to the Cambrian ones." However, I do recall saying there is no evidence of evolutionary links between Ediacaran life-forms and the animals that appear in the Cambrian.

Well, to most scientists in the field, the pattern in which the Ediacaran fauna fall is a line of evidence for them being precursors to the Cambrian fauna. The geochemical changes also support the transition from soft-bodies to more durable carbonate skeletons at the same time. This may not be good enough for you, but until there is evidence for something better, that's what I'm going with.

Your opinion is noted, but somehow, I don't think it is sincere and you certainly haven't come up with even the remotest evidence for alien genetic engineers.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Dredge
Member
Posts: 1295
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 914 of 1385 (852385)
05-09-2019 7:28 PM
Reply to: Message 888 by Tanypteryx
05-08-2019 7:54 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
Tanypteryx writes:

Why do you think there should be links between sponges, worms, jelly-fish and fish?


Very funny.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 888 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-08-2019 7:54 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

  
edge
Member (Idle past 600 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 915 of 1385 (852386)
05-09-2019 7:29 PM
Reply to: Message 912 by Dredge
05-09-2019 7:20 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
...I definitely don't believe in aliens.

... I said aliens ... is the best scientific explanation

In some remote corner of an intellectually benighted galaxy, this makes sense.

This message is a reply to:
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