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Author Topic:   Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor?
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 891 of 1385 (852321)
05-08-2019 8:03 PM
Reply to: Message 888 by Tanypteryx
05-08-2019 7:54 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
Tanypteryx writes:
Why do you think there should be links between sponges, worms, jelly-fish and fish?
Because my understanding of what existed before fish is basically sponges, worms and jelly-fish - ie, invertebrates.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 888 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-08-2019 7:54 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 896 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-08-2019 8:17 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 910 of 1385 (852381)
05-09-2019 7:07 PM
Reply to: Message 760 by Stile
05-06-2019 1:28 PM


Stile writes:
I thought you were asking about UCA in applied biology?
What part of applied biology involves evolving blind fish?
So - of course I won't answer this question, this question has nothing to do with what we're talking about (UCA and applied biology.)
Unless you're about to share the blind-fish-creation studies in applied biology?
Try again . you conveniently ignored that part of my question that says "antibiotic resistance". Explain why it's necessary to accept that all life on earth shares a common ancestor in order to understand antibiotic resistance.
Therefore - according to me, any YECs (or any non-YECs, even) developing medicine without the idea of UCA behind them - wouldn't be any good at it - they would be known for being "useless" in developing drugs and vaccines.
It's easy to make a stupid, baseless claim; it's not so easy to back it up with a sane explanation or evidence . but have a go.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 760 by Stile, posted 05-06-2019 1:28 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 930 by Stile, posted 05-10-2019 9:28 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 911 of 1385 (852382)
05-09-2019 7:13 PM
Reply to: Message 780 by edge
05-06-2019 5:41 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
edge writes:
And an explanation of why the Edicaran-type of fauna could not be precursors to the Cambrian ones.
I don't recall saying that "Ediacaran-type of fauna could not be precursors to the Cambrian ones." However, I do recall saying there is no evidence of evolutionary links between Ediacaran life-forms and the animals that appear in the Cambrian.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 780 by edge, posted 05-06-2019 5:41 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 913 by edge, posted 05-09-2019 7:25 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 912 of 1385 (852383)
05-09-2019 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 795 by Tanypteryx
05-06-2019 9:12 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Tanypteryx writes:
Right, says a guy who believes aliens in a fictional book called the bible put people on the Earth 6000 years ago.
No, that's incorrect. I said nothing about believing in aliens - in fact, I definitely don't believe in aliens. I said aliens performing genetic engineering is the best scientific explanation for the fossil record. I also said that science can't explain the fossil record.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 795 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-06-2019 9:12 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 914 of 1385 (852385)
05-09-2019 7:28 PM
Reply to: Message 888 by Tanypteryx
05-08-2019 7:54 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
Tanypteryx writes:
Why do you think there should be links between sponges, worms, jelly-fish and fish?
Very funny.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 888 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-08-2019 7:54 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 916 of 1385 (852387)
05-09-2019 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 889 by AZPaul3
05-08-2019 7:57 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
NWRT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 889 by AZPaul3, posted 05-08-2019 7:57 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 928 by AZPaul3, posted 05-09-2019 8:33 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 917 of 1385 (852388)
05-09-2019 7:35 PM
Reply to: Message 894 by JonF
05-08-2019 8:13 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
JonF writes:
By definition the gaps are where evolution isn't.
I totally agree. The gaps are where aliens performed genetic engineering to produce a novel organism(s).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 894 by JonF, posted 05-08-2019 8:13 PM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 929 by JonF, posted 05-10-2019 9:17 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 963 by Tangle, posted 05-12-2019 1:49 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 918 of 1385 (852389)
05-09-2019 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 896 by Tanypteryx
05-08-2019 8:17 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
Tanypteryx writes:
So? I'm still not seeing the connection.
I still don't see any connection either - the gaps from sponges/jelly-fish/worms to fish is best scientifically explained by aliens performing genetic engineering.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 896 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-08-2019 8:17 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 923 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-09-2019 8:00 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 933 by ringo, posted 05-10-2019 12:09 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 919 of 1385 (852390)
05-09-2019 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 900 by edge
05-08-2019 8:26 PM


Re: does a species from one genus evolve into a species from another genus ... yes
edge writes:
I think you mean that the intellectually laziest explanation is genetic engineering by aliens.
Not quite - my "aliens did it" theory is an example of sublime science produced by the mind of a deadset genius. Do you realize that many scientists thought Einstein was babbling when he first aired his theories?
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 900 by edge, posted 05-08-2019 8:26 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 920 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-09-2019 7:53 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 922 by edge, posted 05-09-2019 7:54 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 935 by Meddle, posted 05-10-2019 7:36 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 921 of 1385 (852394)
05-09-2019 7:53 PM
Reply to: Message 908 by vimesey
05-09-2019 11:50 AM


Re: Progressive Creation - no predictive ability - take 2
vimesey writes:
It was Slartibartfast pissing around after he got bored with fjords ;-)
He should have stuck to designing coastlines, which he had a real talent for - his fjords were pretty ordinary, if you ask me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 908 by vimesey, posted 05-09-2019 11:50 AM vimesey has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 924 of 1385 (852397)
05-09-2019 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 913 by edge
05-09-2019 7:25 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
edge writes:
you certainly haven't come up with even the remotest evidence for alien genetic engineers.
My evidence is the same as your evidence that life on earth evolved from a microbe - the fossil record. Don't blame me for your lack of scientific understanding.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 913 by edge, posted 05-09-2019 7:25 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 926 by edge, posted 05-09-2019 8:21 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 925 of 1385 (852399)
05-09-2019 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 922 by edge
05-09-2019 7:54 PM


Re: does a species from one genus evolve into a species from another genus ... yes
edge writes:
"Deadest", perhaps ..
"deadset", actually. I've corrected it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 922 by edge, posted 05-09-2019 7:54 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 927 by edge, posted 05-09-2019 8:23 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 936 of 1385 (852443)
05-10-2019 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 888 by Tanypteryx
05-08-2019 7:54 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
Tanypteryx writes:
Why do you think there should be links between sponges, worms, jelly-fish and fish?
"Looking for Evidence
Darwin himself had reservations about his theory, shared by some of the most important biologists of his time. And the problems that worried him have only grown more substantial over the decades. In the famous “Cambrian explosion” of around half a billion years ago, a striking variety of new organisms”including the first-ever animals”pop up suddenly in the fossil record over a mere 70-odd million years. This great outburst followed many hundreds of millions of years of slow growth and scanty fossils, mainly of single-celled organisms, dating back to the origins of life roughly three and half billion years ago.
Darwin’s theory predicts that new life forms evolve gradually from old ones in a constantly branching, spreading tree of life. Those brave new Cambrian creatures must therefore have had Precambrian predecessors, similar but not quite as fancy and sophisticated. They could not have all blown out suddenly, like a bunch of geysers. Each must have had a closely related predecessor, which must have had its own predecessors: Darwinian evolution is gradual, step-by-step. All those predecessors must have come together, further back, into a series of branches leading down to the (long ago) trunk.
But those predecessors of the Cambrian creatures are missing. Darwin himself was disturbed by their absence from the fossil record. He believed they would turn up eventually. Some of his contemporaries (such as the eminent Harvard biologist Louis Agassiz) held that the fossil record was clear enough already, and showed that Darwin’s theory was wrong. Perhaps only a few sites had been searched for fossils, but they had been searched straight down. The Cambrian explosion had been unearthed, and beneath those Cambrian creatures their Precambrian predecessors should have been waiting”and weren’t. In fact, the fossil record as a whole lacked the upward-branching structure Darwin predicted.
The trunk was supposed to branch into many different species, each species giving rise to many genera, and towards the top of the tree you would find so much diversity that you could distinguish separate phyla”the large divisions (sponges, mosses, mollusks, chordates, and so on) that comprise the kingdoms of animals, plants, and several others”take your pick. But, as Berlinski points out, the fossil record shows the opposite: “representatives of separate phyla appearing first followed by lower-level diversification on those basic themes.” In general, “most species enter the evolutionary order fully formed and then depart unchanged.” The incremental development of new species is largely not there. Those missing pre-Cambrian organisms have still not turned up. (Although fossils are subject to interpretation, and some biologists place pre-Cambrian life-forms closer than others to the new-fangled Cambrian creatures.)
Some researchers have guessed that those missing Precambrian precursors were too small or too soft-bodied to have made good fossils. Meyer notes that fossil traces of ancient bacteria and single-celled algae have been discovered: smallness per se doesn’t mean that an organism can’t leave fossil traces”although the existence of fossils depends on the surroundings in which the organism lived, and the history of the relevant rock during the ages since it died. The story is similar for soft-bodied organisms. Hard-bodied forms are more likely to be fossilized than soft-bodied ones, but many fossils of soft-bodied organisms and body parts do exist. Precambrian fossil deposits have been discovered in which tiny, soft-bodied embryo sponges are preserved”but no predecessors to the celebrity organisms of the Cambrian explosion.
This sort of negative evidence can’t ever be conclusive. But the ever-expanding fossil archives don’t look good for Darwin, who made clear and concrete predictions that have (so far) been falsified”according to many reputable paleontologists, anyway. When does the clock run out on those predictions? Never. But any thoughtful person must ask himself whether scientists today are looking for evidence that bears on Darwin, or looking to explain away evidence that contradicts him. There are some of each. Scientists are only human, and their thinking (like everyone else’s) is colored by emotion."
- from Giving Up Darwin, by David Gelernter

This message is a reply to:
 Message 888 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-08-2019 7:54 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 937 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-10-2019 11:15 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 938 by edge, posted 05-10-2019 11:43 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 939 of 1385 (852454)
05-11-2019 6:29 PM
Reply to: Message 913 by edge
05-09-2019 7:25 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
edge writes:
you certainly haven't come up with even the remotest evidence for alien genetic engineers.
My aliens are as invisible as your macroevolution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 913 by edge, posted 05-09-2019 7:25 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 940 by AZPaul3, posted 05-11-2019 6:31 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 959 by edge, posted 05-11-2019 10:09 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 990 by Taq, posted 05-13-2019 12:56 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 941 of 1385 (852456)
05-11-2019 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 923 by Tanypteryx
05-09-2019 8:00 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
Tanypteryx writes:
scientifically explain aliens performing genetic engineering.
For an understanding of genetic engineering, just google "genetic engineering".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 923 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-09-2019 8:00 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 946 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-11-2019 7:17 PM Dredge has replied

  
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