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Author Topic:   Brexit - Should they stay or should they go?
PaulK
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Posts: 14961
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 586 of 634 (852524)
05-13-2019 3:53 AM
Reply to: Message 585 by Heathen
05-13-2019 2:39 AM


Lib Dem isn’t the only Remain option. There are also the Green Party and Change UK (formerly The Independent Group). Regional parties may also be Remain - the SNP being a big one.

The electoral system for the European Parliament is different, too. Bigger constituencies, electing multiple representatives, so voting for the smaller parties may not be a wasted vote.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 587 by Heathen, posted 05-13-2019 4:11 AM PaulK has responded

    
Heathen
Member
Posts: 1047
From: Brizzle
Joined: 09-20-2005


Message 587 of 634 (852525)
05-13-2019 4:11 AM
Reply to: Message 586 by PaulK
05-13-2019 3:53 AM


Lib Dem isn’t the only Remain option

not the only, but the major.

Change uk are as rudderless as the tories and labour and will struggle to gather much support.
I mean, the optics of it aren't good, a bunch of "remain" politicials preaching about reform from the inside as being the best way of changing/improving the EU, who had to "Leave" (their parties) to begin to achieve their aims...
apparently Irony free.


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Replies to this message:
 Message 588 by PaulK, posted 05-13-2019 8:22 AM Heathen has responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 14961
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 588 of 634 (852529)
05-13-2019 8:22 AM
Reply to: Message 587 by Heathen
05-13-2019 4:11 AM


Change UK are in a bit of a mess, but the SNP in Scotland in the Greens elsewhere already have MEPs. And any of them would do for a protest vote against Brexit.
This message is a reply to:
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Heathen
Member
Posts: 1047
From: Brizzle
Joined: 09-20-2005


Message 589 of 634 (852537)
05-13-2019 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 588 by PaulK
05-13-2019 8:22 AM


Do the EU elections have any form of proportional representation? or is it FPTP?
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caffeine
Member
Posts: 1657
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 590 of 634 (852539)
05-13-2019 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 589 by Heathen
05-13-2019 10:07 AM


Do the EU elections have any form of proportional representation? or is it FPTP?

It's a roughly proportional system.


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PaulK
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Posts: 14961
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 591 of 634 (852540)
05-13-2019 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 589 by Heathen
05-13-2019 10:07 AM


The European elections have large constituencies electing multiple MEPs from party lists. Scotland for instance is one constituency with 6 MEPs. It’s called the D’Hondt method.
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Diomedes
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Posts: 851
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 592 of 634 (852803)
05-17-2019 8:05 AM


Labour-Tory Brexit talks fail with no compromise
quote:
Talks between Labour and the government aimed at breaking the Brexit impasse have ended without an agreement.

Jeremy Corbyn said the discussions had "gone as far as they can", blaming what he called the government's "increasing weakness and instability".

Theresa May said the lack of a "common position" over a further referendum in Labour had made talks "difficult".

The PM said the government would now consider putting votes to MPs on Brexit options that may "command a majority".


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48304867

Can't say I am surprised. But it is still unfortunate. Next steps should be interesting.

And on a side note, apparently Theresa May indicated that if she loses the next Brexit plan vote, she has promised to set a timetable for her successor.

Interesting times.


Replies to this message:
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caffeine
Member
Posts: 1657
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 593 of 634 (852804)
05-17-2019 8:11 AM
Reply to: Message 592 by Diomedes
05-17-2019 8:05 AM


Re: Labour-Tory Brexit talks fail with no compromise
And on a side note, apparently Theresa May indicated that if she loses the next Brexit plan vote, she has promised to set a timetable for her successor.

It's not contingent on winning or losing the vote - she just said after the vote, regardless of outcome.


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Diomedes
Member
Posts: 851
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 594 of 634 (852806)
05-17-2019 9:03 AM
Reply to: Message 593 by caffeine
05-17-2019 8:11 AM


Re: Labour-Tory Brexit talks fail with no compromise
It's not contingent on winning or losing the vote - she just said after the vote, regardless of outcome.

I stand corrected. I skimmed the BBC article I read and didn't catch that.

On another note, Boris Johnson has stated he plans to run for PM:

quote:
Theresa May has promised to set a timetable for the election of her successor after the next Brexit vote in the first week of June.

The agreement follows a meeting between the prime minister and senior Tory MPs who are demanding a date for her departure from Downing Street.

If she loses the vote on her Brexit plan, already rejected three times, sources told the BBC she would resign.

Meanwhile, Boris Johnson has said he will run for leader once Mrs May goes.


Edited by Diomedes, : Fixed typo


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caffeine
Member
Posts: 1657
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 595 of 634 (852818)
05-17-2019 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 594 by Diomedes
05-17-2019 9:03 AM


Re: Labour-Tory Brexit talks fail with no compromise
On another note, Boris Johnson has stated he plans to run for PM:

Please god, no.


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Taq
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Posts: 7774
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 596 of 634 (852821)
05-17-2019 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 592 by Diomedes
05-17-2019 8:05 AM


Re: Labour-Tory Brexit talks fail with no compromise
Diomedes writes:

And on a side note, apparently Theresa May indicated that if she loses the next Brexit plan vote, she has promised to set a timetable for her successor.

That should be entertaining. I can't see how any Brexit plan is going to be palatable to the British public, so May seems to be saying, "Fine, let's see you do better".

I don't see anyway around another general vote on Brexit. It's one thing to vote for Brexit in the abstract, and a whole different thing to see the real ramifications of Brexit. Government incompetence is just the cherry on top.


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Diomedes
Member
Posts: 851
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 597 of 634 (852827)
05-17-2019 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 596 by Taq
05-17-2019 1:13 PM


Re: Labour-Tory Brexit talks fail with no compromise
I don't see anyway around another general vote on Brexit. It's one thing to vote for Brexit in the abstract, and a whole different thing to see the real ramifications of Brexit. Government incompetence is just the cherry on top.

Not sure how easily another vote can/would occur. It was proposed as part of the indicative votes, but was rejected. Along with everything else.

Timing once again will be the issue. To engineer another vote takes a minimum of 10 weeks to prepare. The vote on May's Deal will occur again in June and if it fails, which is likely, that will likely start the process of picking her successor. Which will eat up more time.

Now if Boris or Gove take the helm, I doubt they would push for another referendum. Boris seems hell bent on no deal, so my suspicion is he would just be all bravado and tell the EU that if they don't agree to a different deal, he will leave with no deal. Not sure if Gove would be that melodramatic. But the potential alternate leaders in the Conservative party don't exactly inspire confidence at this stage.


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Taq
Member
Posts: 7774
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 598 of 634 (852835)
05-17-2019 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 597 by Diomedes
05-17-2019 2:43 PM


Re: Labour-Tory Brexit talks fail with no compromise
Diomedes writes:

Now if Boris or Gove take the helm, I doubt they would push for another referendum. Boris seems hell bent on no deal, so my suspicion is he would just be all bravado and tell the EU that if they don't agree to a different deal, he will leave with no deal.

Stupid question . . . if May steps down would this result in new elections, or can a new PM be appointed by the ruling coalition without an election?


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caffeine
Member
Posts: 1657
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 599 of 634 (852849)
05-18-2019 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 598 by Taq
05-17-2019 5:21 PM


Re: Labour-Tory Brexit talks fail with no compromise
Stupid question . . . if May steps down would this result in new elections, or can a new PM be appointed by the ruling coalition without an election?

They can appoint a new PM without an election, as long as there's someone Paliament is actually willing to support.

Since the Fixed-Terms Parliament Act was passed, the government no longer has the power to dissolve Parliament at will, including by the PM resigning. It needs a two-thirds majority in Parliament to have an early election.

In order that this doesn't mean the country continues rudderless if no one can form a new government; Parliament can with a simple majority pass a vote of no confidence in whatever new government the Tories try to form - after this there's a two week grace period in which to try and form a government that can command majority support. If this fails Parliament will be dissolved and there will be an early general election.


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Diomedes
Member
Posts: 851
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 600 of 634 (852852)
05-18-2019 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 599 by caffeine
05-18-2019 9:40 AM


Re: Labour-Tory Brexit talks fail with no compromise
In order that this doesn't mean the country continues rudderless if no one can form a new government; Parliament can with a simple majority pass a vote of no confidence in whatever new government the Tories try to form - after this there's a two week grace period in which to try and form a government that can command majority support. If this fails Parliament will be dissolved and there will be an early general election.

The Sun has put together a list of the odds for the prospective successors to Theresa May, which can be found via the following link:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/...eresa-may-resign-election-latest

It does appear Boris has the current 'best' odds (at around 3:1). Gove is next at 7:1 followed by Jeremy Corbyn at 8:1.

So the UK's options appear to be Curly, Larry and Moe. Not necessarily in that order.


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