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Author Topic:   Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor?
Dredge
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 970 of 1385 (852505)
05-12-2019 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 959 by edge
05-11-2019 10:09 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
edge writes:
Your aliens are part of a mechanism.
No, you are confused. The aliens are the cause, not the mechanism. Your dud ToE doesn't even have a cause!
The mechanism should be detectable, or at least known by some inference.
Genetic engineering as a mechanism is as detectable as your mechanisms of evolution. The difference is, your evo-mechanisms can only demonstrate puny little microevolutions, whereas the potential of genetic engineering to produce macroevolutions cannot be doubted and has in fact already been demonstrated by scientists via observations and repeatable experiments. Where is your demonstration of observable macroevolution?
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

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 Message 959 by edge, posted 05-11-2019 10:09 PM edge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 972 of 1385 (852507)
05-12-2019 8:43 PM
Reply to: Message 960 by edge
05-11-2019 10:17 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
edge writes:
You have not presented evidence for such agents.
I have - millions of people believe in the existence of aliens based on evidence. The fossil record is also scientific evidence of aliens.
It's in the patterns.
Oh, you mean a "pattern" such as inexplicable jump from assymetrical to bilateral? Or from worm to insect? That's funny!

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Dredge
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 973 of 1385 (852508)
05-12-2019 8:47 PM
Reply to: Message 961 by edge
05-11-2019 10:21 PM


Okay, let's check the title of this thread . " Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor?"
You should have just said, "I can't think of any practical medical use for the theory of common descent".

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 Message 961 by edge, posted 05-11-2019 10:21 PM edge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 975 of 1385 (852510)
05-12-2019 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 962 by edge
05-11-2019 10:26 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
edge writes:
And apparently plumbers are not qualified to do brain surgery.
It's funny you should mention that - I once paid (a carton of beer) a motorcycle mechanic to do some brain surgery on me, and as far as I can tell, it worked out just fine.
Later. It might be kind of fun, but I found the passage to be mind-numbing on the first pass.
My mind feels numb most to the time, yet I am still capable of producing ingenious thoughts in the form of beautiful science.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

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Dredge
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 977 of 1385 (852512)
05-12-2019 9:16 PM
Reply to: Message 963 by Tangle
05-12-2019 1:49 AM


Re: Progressive Creation
Tangle writes:
The earth is very old - let's say 3.4bn years?
Correct.
Your Christian god created it?
Not quite correct. My Christian God created it (ie, not "god" but "God").
Your Christian god created simple life forms which then evolved through natural processes into more complex lifeforms?
Incorrect. God created simple life forms which "evolved" via non-natural processes into more complex lifeforms.
Until they got to the Cambrian, then aliens got to work with their genetic engineering? Then normal evolution occurs again for the next 600million years or so? Then we get to our ape descendants where your Christian god comes back and create Homo sapiens?
Incorrect. My "aliens" theory has nothing at all to do with my "God" theory. They are two separate theories. I wear two different hats - my "God" hat and my "Science" hat, depending on the audience.
When I'm wearing my Science hat, my "aliens' theory is my best SCIENTIFIC theory for the what was responsible the fossil record. But having said that, I don't believe my or any "best scientific theory" for what is responsible for the fossil record, because I believe science cannot explain what is responsible for the fossil record.
When I'm wearing my God hat, I believe the fossil record can be explained only by miracles and divine intervention.
So I believe my God theory, but not my "aliens" theory. My "aliens" theory is simply a demonstration the stupendous brilliance of my scientific mind and an attempt to win a Nobel Prize for Science.
Do the aliens return after the various mass extinction events- maybe after dinosaurs go extinct for instance?
Extinction events can be explained by some unforeseen natural event that the aliens had no control over, or they can be explained by the aliens getting bored with a certain line of genetic experimentation and starting again on a different tact - although other aliens scenarios can be thought of besides the "boredom" hypothesis.
Do you worship the aliens?
No way! I worship only God. The "aliens" are just a fantasy masquerading as science . you know, just like Darwinism is.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 963 by Tangle, posted 05-12-2019 1:49 AM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 978 by AZPaul3, posted 05-12-2019 9:25 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 982 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-12-2019 9:41 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 980 of 1385 (852515)
05-12-2019 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 964 by Tanypteryx
05-12-2019 10:51 AM


Re: Progressive Creation
Tanypteryx writes:
I have never thought of genetic engineering as a mechanism of evolution
A probable explanation for that is, I am a genius and you are a intellectual mediocrity.
Would you consider stem cell therapies to try and cure an individual's genetic disease, genetic engineering? Or is genetic engineering strictly modifying the germ line?
Er, why have you posed me this question immediately after I said "I know next to nothing about genetic engineering"? A genius doesn't know everything!
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 983 by AZPaul3, posted 05-12-2019 9:45 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 981 of 1385 (852516)
05-12-2019 9:40 PM
Reply to: Message 979 by Tanypteryx
05-12-2019 9:32 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
Tanypteryx writes:
I guess I will never know why you posted Gelernter's crap.
Prejudice is easy - the hard part is proving that it's "crap".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 979 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-12-2019 9:32 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 984 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-12-2019 9:47 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 985 of 1385 (852520)
05-12-2019 9:53 PM
Reply to: Message 984 by Tanypteryx
05-12-2019 9:47 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
Tanypteryx writes:
It's up to him to prove it's not crap.
Er, no . that's not how it works - you made the claim that it's crap, so the onus is on your to prove your claim.
Furthermore, I made no claim about Gelernter's opinion on the fossil record; I merely posted his thoughts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 984 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-12-2019 9:47 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 986 by AZPaul3, posted 05-12-2019 10:24 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 987 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-12-2019 11:59 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 988 by JonF, posted 05-13-2019 9:03 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 989 by Theodoric, posted 05-13-2019 12:26 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 994 of 1385 (852555)
05-13-2019 8:19 PM
Reply to: Message 672 by dwise1
05-02-2019 7:20 PM


Re: Just to interject the YEC floodist view
dwise1 writes:
"The physicist has an idea, he said. The more he thinks it through, the more sense it makes to him. He goes to the scientific literature, and the more he reads, the more promising the idea seems. Thus prepared, he devises an experiment to test the idea. The experiment is painstaking. Many possibilities are eliminated or taken into account; the accuracy of the measurement is refined. At the end of all this work, the experiment is completed and ... the idea is shown to be worthless. The physicist then discards the idea, frees his mind (as I was saying a moment ago) from the clutter of error, and moves on to something else." (reportedly from an essay by Carl Sagan)
What a pity the theory of common descent can't be tested using the aforementioned method ... or any other method. A theory that can't be tested doesn't even qualify as science.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 672 by dwise1, posted 05-02-2019 7:20 PM dwise1 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 999 by AZPaul3, posted 05-13-2019 8:58 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 995 of 1385 (852556)
05-13-2019 8:29 PM
Reply to: Message 855 by Tangle
05-08-2019 5:37 PM


Re: Restating the question
Tangle writes:
If chimps have somewhere around 95-98% human DNA
I'm glad you said "If", because I think you are talking nonsense - my understanding is, only about 2% of the human genome shares 95-89% DNA with chimps.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 996 by JonF, posted 05-13-2019 8:39 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 1017 by AZPaul3, posted 05-13-2019 11:10 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 997 of 1385 (852558)
05-13-2019 8:43 PM
Reply to: Message 904 by RAZD
05-09-2019 8:31 AM


Re: Progressive Creation and Aliens (oh my) - no predictive ability - take 2
RAZD writes:
... except that each fossil currently valides the ToE when it fits into the temporal/spatial matrix and the explanation provided by the ToE for getting from one spcies to another via known mechanisms of evolution.
I fear you're talking rubbish. Fossils confirm that life-forms on earth have changed over time, but fossils can't confirm or validate the cause of those changes. Fossils don't validate ToE and its mechanisms anymore than they validate my "aliens" theory and its mechanism of genetic engineering.
Neither aliens nor "progressive creation" provide as complete an explanation of all facets of the evidence.
And ToE does? You're dreaming.
[qs]
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 904 by RAZD, posted 05-09-2019 8:31 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
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Dredge
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 998 of 1385 (852559)
05-13-2019 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 904 by RAZD
05-09-2019 8:31 AM


Re: Progressive Creation and Aliens (oh my) - no predictive ability - take 2
RAZD writes:
Curious that aliens and gods only created evidence that completely mimics what the process of evolution would produce and only what the ToE predicts would occur.
Curious that you ignore all the evidence that contradicts ToE - where is the evidence for the evolutionary ancestors of trilobites, fish and insects? Where are the missing links between the Ediacaran fauna all the novel phyla that appeared during the Cambrian explosion? The evidence for these "ancestors" doesn't exist!
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 904 by RAZD, posted 05-09-2019 8:31 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1000 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-13-2019 9:05 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 1015 by edge, posted 05-13-2019 10:36 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 1022 by RAZD, posted 05-15-2019 12:05 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1001 of 1385 (852562)
05-13-2019 9:05 PM
Reply to: Message 907 by Taq
05-09-2019 11:40 AM


Re: Progressive Creation - no predictive ability - take 2
Taq writes:
It can be confirmed by both the pattern of physical differences and similarities and the same for genetic differences and similarities. We find a correlation between the nested hierarchies in both sets of data which confirms the mechanisms of vertical inheritance and random mutations.
You're dreaming. It's impossible for fossils to "confirm" anything about random mutations or any other mechanism of evolution or any aspect of genetics.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 907 by Taq, posted 05-09-2019 11:40 AM Taq has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1002 of 1385 (852563)
05-13-2019 9:13 PM
Reply to: Message 932 by Stile
05-10-2019 11:43 AM


Stile writes:
Applied biology in medicine may not have "consider UCA theory" as part of it's checklist
"may not have"? ... more like, "has no need at all to" - UCA is useless.
but that checklist wouldn't be what it is without that driving, originating principle.
Prove this nonsense claim. Supply a scientific article or paper that demonstrates that a practical use in any applied science is predicated on the concept of UCA.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 932 by Stile, posted 05-10-2019 11:43 AM Stile has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
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Dredge
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1003 of 1385 (852564)
05-13-2019 9:30 PM
Reply to: Message 965 by RAZD
05-12-2019 2:19 PM


Re: does a species from one genus evolve into a species from another genus ... yes
RAZD writes:
Dredge writes:
On the contrary, the fossil record shows abundant evidence of "outside tampering".
Please provide. preferably documented in a scientific journal. I know of none.
Ever heard of the fossil record?
Mostly because producing a new genus was not the intent of artificial selection.
For thousands of years, humans have tried to alter the characteristics of dogs, for example, in all sorts of ways using every trick in nature's toolbox - even resorting to unnatural methods such as inbreeding - but no one has managed to produce anything but more dogs. Obviously, there are genetic limits to how much organisms can change.
It was only when genetic engineering came along that the potential for producing radically different organisms was realised. Compared to genetic engineering, the mechanisms of evolution have been observed to produced only very limited and puny changes with a population. The claim that these evolutionary mechanisms can change a dinosaur into a bird (for example) are absurd and an embarrassment to science.
And yet the ToE still explains all the known evidence.
... like fish and insects appearing out of nowhere in the fossil record!
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 965 by RAZD, posted 05-12-2019 2:19 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1013 by edge, posted 05-13-2019 10:28 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 1023 by RAZD, posted 05-15-2019 1:01 PM Dredge has replied

  
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