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Author | Topic: Introducing Thugpreacha | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: The question is how you answer them - and in context how you answer them without abandoning critical thinking.
quote: It certainly doesn’t do that for me.
quote: It seems to me to be a far greater folly to throw out science in favour of myth and legend. Indeed, we do not argue that we can disprove a Creator - though we do argue that we can disprove the literal reading of many creation myths.
quote: The wise move is to double down on becoming your own god ? I don’t think so. Extreme skepticism is an error, of course, but the other extreme is so much worse.
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
In a sense, think that we agree...we just have different approaches in so doing.
We both question. We both have doubted at times We both agree that the goal of applying critical thinking to our lives is not intended to be a tool used to dismiss the possibility of a Creator. Correct?Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: The goal of critical thinking is to expose falsehoods and those ideas inadequately supported by the evidence. Young Earth Creationism is the former, Deistic creation the latter.
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
paulK writes: If a Creator existed and yet it could be scientifically "shown" that the universe need not require a Creator, as Hawking stated...it would boil down to faith rather than evidence. If no such Creator existed, those of you who have not found a reason to believe would be vindicated. The goal of critical thinking is to expose falsehoods and those ideas inadequately supported by the evidence. Young Earth Creationism is the former, Deistic creation the latter. It is noteworthy that while many Christians seemed to vilify Hawking for apparently being an unbeliever, the great man himself had a few quotes of note that gave one pause to think.
The only quote he had that, in my opinion, would make it difficult to accept God would be this last one, however.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3
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quote: In fact the conclusion that the evidence is insufficient to support a claim does not require the claim to be shown to be false to be vindicated. Only the conclusion that the claim is false would need that. And if there is insufficient evidence for belief then surely it must come down to faith.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The goal of critical thinking is to expose falsehoods and those ideas inadequately supported by the evidence. That's an inadequate definition. Critical thinking weighs whatever information is available on both sides, including vagueness, imponderables, suspected but not proven falseness, various kinds and credibility of evidence, and comes to conclusions based on the assigned weights since evidence on many subjects is really not all that compelling.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: A goal is not a definition. In particular it is not required to state how the goal is to be achieved. You would be far better advised to back up your strange assertion that critical thinking somehow leads to the view that “scripture was given to us by God” - apparently without even considering the contrary evidence.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Critical thinking takes into account the experience of being born again and of spiritual discernment. If you don't have it you can't take it into account of course.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: Subjective experiences and evaluations have little weight. I can, however observe your behaviour and your claims of “discernment” and see that objectively they offer even less to support your opinions.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Since you yourself have no spiritual discernment, you can't judge someone else's.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3
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quote: Sure I can. If your “spiritual discernment” is obviously not helping you understand the Bible - if I can clearly see that it’s just giving your prejudice a fancy name to exalt it (and I can) then what more is there to say ? I can judge your claim to “spiritual discernment” better than you can. Indeed, that would likely be true even if your judgement wasn’t marred by prejudice and irrationality and false pride.
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I thought I would flag RAZD down to help us muddle through some of this. It is my understanding, in a strict definition of where we all stand, that I profess to be a Cosmological Creationist...in that I believe that God created all seen and unseen yet not necessarily a Biblical Creationist, which would follow a word for word literal Bible and biblical account, which is Faith's position as I understand it. Perhaps you can clarify your position, PaulK. I have understood you to be basically an atheist who defers to the latest in scientific understanding as to the origin of the universe as we know it. RAZD is more along the lines of Deistic Creation.
Wiki writes: Deism (/dizm/ DEE-iz-m”[1][2] or /de.zm/ DAY-iz-m; derived from Latin "deus" meaning "god") is the philosophical belief which posits that although God exists as the uncaused First Cause - ultimately responsible for the creation of the universe - God does not interact directly with that subsequently created world. Equivalently, deism can also be defined as the view which asserts God's existence as the cause of all things, and admits its perfection (and usually the existence of natural law and Providence) but rejects divine revelation or direct intervention of God in the universe by miracles. It also rejects revelation as a source of religious knowledge and asserts that reason and observation of the natural world are sufficient to determine the existence of a single creator or absolute principle of the universe.[3][4][5] Deism as a form of natural theology gained prominence among intellectuals during the Age of Enlightenment, especially in Britain, France, Germany, and the United States. Typically, deists had been raised as Christians and believed in one God, but had become disenchanted with organized religion and orthodox teachings such as the Trinity, Biblical inerrancy, and the supernatural interpretation of events, such as miracles.[6] Included in those influenced by its ideas were leaders of the American and French Revolutions.[7] Deism is considered to exist in the classical and modern forms,[8] where the classical view takes what is called a "cold" approach by asserting the non-intervention of a deity in the natural behavior of the created universe, while the modern deist formulation can be either "warm" (citing an involved deity) or "cold" (citing an uninvolved deity). These lead to many subdivisions of modern deism, which serves as an overall category of belief.[9]
The reason that I am not a Biblical Creationist nor Literalist (except perhaps a Thought For Thought Literalist) is a belief that is under construction and not written in stone (nor on my heart). I am now going to advertise this post on my Thugpreacha page in the hopes of drawing some of them here to our little virtual porch on EvC Forum where jar always urged newbies to "pull up a stump and set a spell".
Todays Posts @ Thugpreacha...Note the shameless plug for the Mormons as well! They are gonna hate me! Edited by Phat, : No reason given. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.~Stile
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Yeah well I'm the one who gets it right about the Bible. Sorry.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3
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quote: No, you’re the one who gets it wrong about the Bible. That’s how I know you don’t have “spiritual discernment”.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: I think the best clarification is to repeat what I said. I regard Deistic Creation as an idea with inadequate support from the evidence - but not one that can be disproved. Indeed, I would say that it is unfalsifiable.
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