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Author Topic:   Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor?
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4409
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


(1)
Message 1020 of 1385 (852637)
05-14-2019 7:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1019 by Taq
05-14-2019 6:14 PM


Re: Progressive Creation
There is no reason why we would expect to see genetic engineering produce these patterns.
Yeah but, in Message 954 he said:
quote:
I know next to nothing about genetic engineering.
So that means he can make up any fantasy that pops into his noggin.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1019 by Taq, posted 05-14-2019 6:14 PM Taq has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4409
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 1044 of 1385 (853087)
05-22-2019 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1029 by Dredge
05-21-2019 10:16 PM


Re: Progressive Creation and Aliens (oh my) - no predictive ability - take 2
Dredge writes:
Tanyptyerx writes:
Curious that all this is incorrect. You have presented no evidence that contradicts the ToE. Which "novel" phyla?
What the evolutionary ancestors of a trilobite? Algae? Bacteria?
Sorry, I don't understand what you are asking here.
I will ask again, which novel phyla are you talking about?

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1029 by Dredge, posted 05-21-2019 10:16 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1078 by Dredge, posted 05-27-2019 11:58 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4409
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


(5)
Message 1046 of 1385 (853095)
05-22-2019 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 1030 by Dredge
05-21-2019 10:18 PM


Re: NO evidence of aliens
Dredge writes:
AZPaul3 writes:
Fossils give us great big clues to what happened and when
I agree - but fossils don't tell us HOW.
And that does not contradict what the fossils DO tell us.
I know you are unaware of this, but science makes no claim to having ALL knowledge. Scientists are adding knowledge all the time.
That's why there is science and scientists, because there are still questions to answer.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1030 by Dredge, posted 05-21-2019 10:18 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1093 by Dredge, posted 05-29-2019 3:51 AM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4409
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


(2)
Message 1047 of 1385 (853098)
05-22-2019 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 1032 by Dredge
05-21-2019 10:26 PM


Re: Progressive Creation and Aliens (oh my) - no predictive ability - take 2
Dredge writes:
Ah yes, but fossils don't confirm that Darwinian evolution is responsible for that progression.
And they certainly don't refute that evolution is responsible for that progression. Science has moved well beyond Darwinian evolution and I am unaware of anyone bothering to "confirm Darwinian evolution" today.
Dredge writes:
And insects appearing out of nowhere, for example, is hardly evidence of Darwinian evolution.
Well, it is not evidence of anything, because insects DO NOT appear out of nowhere.
Dredge writes:
Other huge gaps in the fossil record don't support Darwinism - they contradict it.
But they DO NOT contradict evolution.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1032 by Dredge, posted 05-21-2019 10:26 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1094 by Dredge, posted 05-29-2019 3:56 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4409
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


(1)
Message 1053 of 1385 (853108)
05-22-2019 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 1034 by Dredge
05-21-2019 11:12 PM


Re: does a species from one genus evolve into a species from another genus ... yes
Dredge writes:
The "incomplete fossil record" excuse is running out of puff
I don't know what puff is, but it is an accurate description. Every new fossil discovery makes the record a little less incomplete, so science seems to be working properly.
Dredge writes:
Gunter Bechly considers the fossil record to be "saturated" - meaning, we have enough fossil evidence now to conclude that the record is complete in a general sense.
Do you have a reference for where he says this?
I assume he is talking about discovered fossils when he refers to the fossil record, so obviously we have we have the fossils we have discovered so far.
Also obviously, the complete fossil record includes all the discovered fossils and all the undiscovered fossils and all the gaps.
The only way Bechly can support his quack theory is by intentionally ignoring evidence.
Dredge writes:
Oh, and I suppose all those gaps and sudden appearances in the fossil record are predicted by ToE as well! Your quack theory relies on cheery-picking the evidence.
They are predicted by paleontological and geological theory. The ToE explains them.
You are correct, the Theory of Evolution, cherry picks ALL the evidence, that's the point, to explain ALL the evidence.
Dredge writes:
That is to say, the gaps and sudden appearances will always be gaps and sudden appearances.
This may be end up being true for some, but as discoveries are made some gaps disappear and sudden appearances turn out not to be sudden after all.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1034 by Dredge, posted 05-21-2019 11:12 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1092 by Dredge, posted 05-29-2019 3:47 AM Tanypteryx has replied
 Message 1289 by Larni, posted 07-06-2019 11:25 AM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4409
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


(3)
Message 1058 of 1385 (853131)
05-22-2019 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1026 by Dredge
05-21-2019 9:48 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Dredge writes:
Thousands of people have claimed to have seen UFOs
And amazingly they are still unidentified.
Dredge writes:
on the other hand, ZERO people have claimed to have seen macroevolution.
Well, except for all the scientists who have documented speciation occurring, which is how science defines macroevolution.
Dredge writes:
fossils show that macroevolution has occurred, but fossils don't tell us HOW it occurred.
Maybe not, but evidence from other branches of science do tell us how evolution occurs, so as more evidence is discovered we we can understand more and more about how it occurred in the past.
Dredge writes:
Your Darwinist explanation is merely one possible explanation ... which is supported by fossil evidence, but isn't CONFIRMED by fossil evidence.
Our evolutionary theory is the only one that explains all the evidence in a scientifically consistent way.
And while you may not accept that the conclusion that life may have descended from one or more common ancestors has a practical use in "applied science" it turns out, as is often the case, that technologies and techniques developed from one field find useful applications in many other fields.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1026 by Dredge, posted 05-21-2019 9:48 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1081 by Dredge, posted 05-28-2019 12:28 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4409
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 1080 of 1385 (853493)
05-28-2019 12:23 AM
Reply to: Message 1078 by Dredge
05-27-2019 11:58 PM


Re: Progressive Creation and Aliens (oh my) - no predictive ability - take 2
Dredge writes:
Tanypteryx writes:
I will ask again, which novel phyla are you talking about?
What organism from the Ediacaran biota is the evolutionary ancestor of trilobites?
I guess since YOU don't know, there must not be an answer.
Dredge writes:
Your evidence of Darwinian evolution leading to the Cambrian explosion
You must be thinking of someone else. I don't have any evidence of Darwinian evolution.
Dredge writes:
which is hardly surprising - both concepts are products of nineteenth-century superstition.
I'll take your word for it, since you seem to be a great believer in superstition.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1078 by Dredge, posted 05-27-2019 11:58 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1117 by Dredge, posted 05-31-2019 12:02 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4409
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 1086 of 1385 (853499)
05-28-2019 1:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1081 by Dredge
05-28-2019 12:28 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Dredge writes:
Tanypteryx writes:
Well, except for all the scientists who have documented speciation occurring, which is how science defines macroevolution.
Speciation is "macroevolution"? So a Green Warbler speciating into another Green Warbler is "macroevolution"? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!
Yep, well typing a bunch of of repeating HAs may be a coherent argument if you're 12.
So, just where and by what biology do you think evolution happens?
Biological evolution in multicellular organisms only happens during a reproductive event between a male and female of the same species.
Do you think there is some organism that is not an individual member of a species, but it is a genus and that it is some how performing macroevolution? Are you daft?
Dredge writes:
Ernst Mayr suggested an eminently more sensible definition - macroevolution occurs only at the level of genus or even higher
No he didn't.
Dredge writes:
Tanypteryx writes:
Maybe not, but evidence from other branches of science do tell us how evolution occurs
Other branches of science tell us only how microevolutionary variations within a population occur - no more, no less.
No more, huh? Are you sure?
Dredge writes:
Tanypteryx writes:
as more evidence is discovered we we can understand more and more about how it occurred in the past.
Nonsense. You are evo-extrapolating into the realms of evo-fantasy.
Nope, I'm just reading reports of interesting new fossil finds all the time.
Dredge writes:
There is no way of testing the theory that observed microevolutions can account for the fossil record.
I'm not familiar with that theory, so I don't care.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1081 by Dredge, posted 05-28-2019 12:28 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1100 by Dredge, posted 05-29-2019 5:07 AM Tanypteryx has replied
 Message 1118 by Dredge, posted 05-31-2019 12:14 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4409
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


(2)
Message 1112 of 1385 (853659)
05-30-2019 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1092 by Dredge
05-29-2019 3:47 AM


Re: does a species from one genus evolve into a species from another genus ... yes
Dredge writes:
Tanypteryx writes:
Dredge writes:
Gunter Bechly considers the fossil record to be "saturated" - meaning, we have enough fossil evidence now to conclude that the record is complete in a general sense.
Do you have a reference for where he says this?
"Gnter Bechly: Rich Fossil Record Says No to Insect Evolution
Posted on March 11, , 2019
Thanks for the reference.
That's why I was unaware of him saying this, it was not in a published scientific paper, just his BS opinion at DI, no evidence to back it up.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1092 by Dredge, posted 05-29-2019 3:47 AM Dredge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1114 by edge, posted 05-30-2019 12:40 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4409
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


(1)
Message 1113 of 1385 (853660)
05-30-2019 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1094 by Dredge
05-29-2019 3:56 AM


Re: Progressive Creation and Aliens (oh my) - no predictive ability - take 2
Dredge writes:
Tanptyeryx writes:
Science has moved well beyond Darwinian evolution and I am unaware of anyone bothering to "confirm Darwinian evolution" today.
What a strange phenomenon - scientists en masse accepting and dogmatically preaching as a fact a claim that can’t ever be confirmed. I’m trying to think of another example of this in science, but I can’t. I smell a big, fat rat
Well, your sense of smell is world renowned.
What claim specifically are you talking about?
Dredge writes:
Well, it is not evidence of anything, because insects DO NOT appear out of nowhere.
Right, so you know better than Gunter Bechly, a world-renowned paleontologist who specializes in insects?
World-renowned? Right. Appeal to authority.
Dredge writes:
With all due respect, I’d say your knowledge of the paleontology of the origins of insects is rather limited
With all due respect, you have absolutely no way of knowing my level of knowledge.
Dredge writes:
(which is perfectly understandable - knowledge of the fossil history of insects is useless and irrelevant to a working biologist)
Curiously, I have never found what you believe is useless or irrelevant, to be a barrier to gaining knowledge.
Dredge writes:
and is probably based on the assumption that evidence for the evolutionary ancestors of insects exists.
Nope, based on knowledge that evidence exists.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1094 by Dredge, posted 05-29-2019 3:56 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4409
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 1115 of 1385 (853662)
05-30-2019 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1100 by Dredge
05-29-2019 5:07 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Dredge writes:
Tanyptyerx writes:
Tanypteryx writes:
as more evidence is discovered we can understand more and more about how it occurred in the past.
Dredge writes:
Nonsense. You are evo-extrapolating into the realms of evo-fantasy.
Nope, I'm just reading reports of interesting new fossil finds all the time.
You're ignoring my point: You can dig up all the fossils you like, but they don't tell us HOW macroevolution occurred.
So what? We already know how macroevolution occurs, you just keep ignoring it, probably because you cannot bare to admit that your knowledge of macroevolution is incorrect.
Dredge writes:
Neo-Darwinism is found wanting when trying to explain the fossil record
Oh no, not Neo-Darwinism, next it will be the New-Synthesis.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1100 by Dredge, posted 05-29-2019 5:07 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1143 by Dredge, posted 06-02-2019 1:38 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4409
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


(1)
Message 1116 of 1385 (853664)
05-30-2019 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1114 by edge
05-30-2019 12:40 PM


Re: does a species from one genus evolve into a species from another genus ... yes
Are you saying that you don't keep up with the DI propaganda outlets?
Shame on you!
The only time I tried reading their stuff, hot coffee came out of my nose and shorted out my keyboard.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1114 by edge, posted 05-30-2019 12:40 PM edge has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4409
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 1119 of 1385 (853703)
05-31-2019 12:21 AM
Reply to: Message 1117 by Dredge
05-31-2019 12:02 AM


Re: Progressive Creation and Aliens (oh my) - no predictive ability - take 2
Dredge writes:
Tanypteryx writes:
Dredge writes:
What organism from the Ediacaran biota is the evolutionary ancestor of trilobites?
I guess since YOU don't know, there must not be an answer.
Translation: “I can’t bring myself to admit that there is no known fossil evidence of evolutionary links between the Ediacaran biota and the Cambrian trilobites.”
Nope, it's more like, So what? If we don't have answers to all the questions that's a good thing, because it means we have lots of things to challenge us, new discoveries to find, it makes life interesting.
You're never going to understand.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1117 by Dredge, posted 05-31-2019 12:02 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1153 by Dredge, posted 06-03-2019 12:58 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4409
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 1120 of 1385 (853704)
05-31-2019 12:24 AM
Reply to: Message 1118 by Dredge
05-31-2019 12:14 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
I'm not familiar with that scale. Wait, was that a trick question?

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1118 by Dredge, posted 05-31-2019 12:14 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4409
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 1145 of 1385 (853885)
06-02-2019 2:24 AM
Reply to: Message 1143 by Dredge
06-02-2019 1:38 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Dredge writes:
I greatly fear you’re suffering a delusion.
I knew you did.
Dredge writes:
The truth is, you only THINK you know how macroevolution occurs
The truth is, you only THINK you know what I think I know about how macroevolution occurs.
Dredge writes:
you’re conflating your personal belief and a scientific theory.
You're mixing personal belief and bullshit.
Dredge writes:
All we “know” is how MICROevolutions occur.
You don't know how microevolution occurs. You have demonstrated this numerous times.
Dredge writes:
You don’t even “know” that microevolutions lead to macroevolution. because you can’t demonstrate it is so
And you can't demonstrate it is not.
Dredge writes:
Furthermore, since you “know how macroevolution occurs”, you won’t have any trouble telling me how you would go about breeding a mammal from a reptile. Good luck with that.
I don't give a shit about reptiles and mammals, I'm in charge of the important ones, INSECTS.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1143 by Dredge, posted 06-02-2019 1:38 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1154 by Dredge, posted 06-03-2019 1:00 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
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