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Author | Topic: Some states protect women's rights | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Chiroptera Inactive Member |
And frankly I really don't give a flyin' flip what the founding fathers may think. They're all dead and this society has changed. In fact, as far as Constitutional matters go, people forget how much of what the founders intended and implemented was superceded by the 14th Amendment. Society had already changed a lot by 1868, let alone in the additional century and a half since then. Edited by Chiroptera, : Time to change the subtitle.If this was a witch hunt, it found a lot of witches. -- David Cole, writing about the Mueller investigation.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9142 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3 |
skip it
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Nearly all of them do - and nearly none of them consider abortion murder. Remember what murder is? That thing where we throw the perpetrators in prison or even execute them? I did think that all sane societies had laws against murder which hadn't been transcended anywhere.Izquierdo.
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Taq Member Posts: 10038 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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Faith writes: Trashing the founding fathers is just more typical Llftist arrogance. They were fallible humans like anyone else. What we don't do is treat them like deities. Founding Father worship seems to be more of a thing on the Right.
Actually, supporting abortion makes you anything BUT a moral paragon, and I hope THAT mentality is condemned in a few generations too. I don't support abortion. I support a woman's right to decide things for herself. I wish abortions never occurred, but I also know it is not my right to tell someone else what to do with their bodies.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member
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They were fallible humans like anyone else. What's more, in their writings they admitted that they really d didn't know what they were doing. At that time, there really weren't any examples of democratic republics built around the Enlightment ideals they were working under. They were pretty clear that they realized they were just making it up as they went along. Not to mention that the actual institutions they created were not based on Timeless Truths That Will Last Forever, but rather the result of profane compromises between politicians who had very different, even contradictory, beliefs about how to proceed. Today, we have 230 years of experience of democratic republics, not only at the federal level but also the individual states and the other democracies in the world. In the meantime, the fields of psychology, sociology, economics, and anthropology have been developed. Overall, we have a lot more data on how the real world operates and what does and what doesn't work.If this was a witch hunt, it found a lot of witches. -- David Cole, writing about the Mueller investigation.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I already answered part of this post. It gives me a stomachache to see that anyone would trash the American founders as you and others do. You are courting complete anarchy and the destruction of the nation.
This time I wanted to answer the following:
The morality has shifted from your medieval religious tripe to the reality of the human condition in our modern global society. And in the balance the choice of the woman wins, not the dictates of your church. As I pointed out, my religious beliefs haven't been part of my argument here, just what I thought was the rational position against killing an innocent person. However, there is a historical point to be made, of which you are obviously completely ignorant. Abortion, or really, infanticide, leaving a newborn out exposed to the elements to die a painful death, was a common practice in all the pagan cultures Christianity eventually supplanted in the West. The Enlightened view was brought by the Church, not the other way around. It was Christians who rescued the babies put out to die, also rescued elderly and sick people neglected and abandoned to death, started orphanages and hospitals and took people in where necessary. So what you are advocating is really a return to Pre-Christian paganism, while it was Christianity that civilized the West. I'm sure you'll just be happy to embrace the return to paganism of course. Civilization doesn't appeal to those on the Izquierdo/ or other side of the Right when it comes down to it. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9142 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3
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Abortion, or really, infanticide, leaving a newborn out exposed to the elements to die a painful death, was a common practice in all the pagan cultures Christianity eventually supplanted in the West
Evidence please.
It was Christians who rescued the babies put out to die, also rescued elderly and sick people neglected and abandoned to death, started orphanages and hospitals and took people in where necessary.
irrelevant, unless you can show that Christians did this before they became the dominant culture in Europe.
So what you are advocating is really a return to Pre-Christian paganism, while it was Christianity that civilized the West.
Actually Christianity drove Europe into what is commonly known as the dark ages.
Civilization doesn't appeal to those on the Izquierdo/ or other side of the Right when it comes down to it.
You are a vile person. Your hate is so over the top. Go screw yourself. Edited by Theodoric, : Fix db codeFacts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8527 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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Abortion, or really, infanticide, leaving a newborn out exposed to the elements to die a painful death, was a common practice in all the pagan cultures Christianity eventually supplanted in the West. You also used to burn women at the stake. The other atrocities your cult perpetrated across Euorpe are, indeed, well known. You cannot lecture anyone on morality.
while it was Christianity that There. Fixed it for you. Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Burned women at the stake? What ARE you talking about? For abortion? What ARE you talking about?
I'm not a Roman Catholic. THEY murdered lots of people for rejecting their false version of Christianity, including millions of true Christians, which is MY group. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8527 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
I'm not a Roman Catholic. THEY murdered lots of people for rejecting their false version of Christianity, including millions of true Christians, which is MY group. Oh. Guess I misunderstood. Sorry.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9142 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3
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Your religion is immoral. Protestants are well known for torturing and killing people. Not just the Roman Catholics. I venture to guess you would be ok with the torture and murder if people that you feel disrespect your god.
What do you think the penalty should be if I went around and said Jesus was a pedophile and your god could go screw himself? Do you think there should be a penalty for that? Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness. If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
That's nonsense. The danger to the nation is idolizing the founding fathers and clinging to their eighteenth-century solutions for our twenty-first-century problems. It gives me a stomachache to see that anyone would trash the American founders as you and others do. You are courting complete anarchy and the destruction of the nation.Izquierdo.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1465 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
They provided means for changing whatever doesn't keep pace with changing times you know, and their insights were timeless, built on centuries of trial and error. We still admire wisdom from the Greeks and Romans going back millennia, so don't give me this nonsense about the founders. Despite pretenses to great changes, there really is "nothing new under the sun" and we need to recognize that. You and the other "progressives" here are courting anarchy and chaos and the complete breakdown of society.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 617 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
That is rather the point, isn't it? And besides, it does happen: partial-birth abortion.
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 617 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
For specific circumstances, just think of partial-birth abortion.
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