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Author | Topic: Some states protect women's rights | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
Often it's because she knows she can't give the potential child the quality of life that it deserves - and our society isn't going to give her much help. The people who claim to be "pro-life" are too busy persecuting women to give a damn about the lives they are "saving". Why does someone have an abortion anyway?Izquierdo.
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
It's not a child. Read your Bible. But even if it was, of course its future welfare should be a concern.
The concern that she's not able to care for a child isn't much of a justification for killing it. Faith writes:
And yet it often is.
With all the services available these days, both public and private, it's not TOO hard to get help... Faith writes:
It isn't your decision to make for everybody else.
... but if all else fails isn't adoption preferable to killing it? Faith writes:
And yet it isn't enough. So your opinion that women have abortions for fun definitely needs to be snarked at. Pro-life people run all kinds of services all over the country to help pregnant women so your snark is unwarranted.Izquierdo.
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
There's room for a lot of beef. But that doesn't seem to be their priority, or yours. One thing you could do that is constructive and cheap is to stop calling them murderers. Wherever services are inadequate I recommend that prolifers beef them up.Izquierdo.
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
You have a short memory. You have called them murderers, which is why I criticized you for not wanting to treat them as murderers.
I don't call them murderers, in fact you criticize me for not calling them murderers or not calling abortion murder. Faith writes:
There you go again. If it was killing a "child", it would be murder.
However, I think it is crucially important for women to know that abortion is killing an unborn child... Faith writes:
Abortion bothers everybody. It's making the best of a bad situation.
If she thinks it's not really a child, not a living thing even, abortion won't bother her. Faith writes:
You're being dishonest with yourself. If you really thought it was a "baby", you wouldn't be so loath to call abortion murder. I think we all know it's a baby in spite of ourselves anyway....Izquierdo.
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
If it isn't getting done, clearly we need somebody to do it. We don't need the government for any of this.Izquierdo.
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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JonF writes:
Well, that would explain why there aren't enough resources to provide actual services. Those services constantly lie to pregnant women.Izquierdo.
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Sarah Bellum writes:
The real question is, Who gets to decide? Would you force the healthy person to keep Sandy alive?
Here's another question. Suppose you were introduced to Sandy, an adult human being who suffered from a terminal illness that could be cured by hooking Sandy's circulatory system up to a healthy individual's circulatory system for nine months.... Sarah Bellum writes:
Even if the healthy person originally consented, does he have the right to change his mind? For some reason, however, they leave the switch to the machine in your reach. Do you have the right to flip the switch to OFF?Izquierdo.
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Sarah Bellum writes:
I can't figure out what you're saying here. Your second sentence seems to agree with me - i.e. we shouldn't force anybody to keep Sandy alive. But your first sentence says there's a difference when it comes to abortion. Why? Why should we force a woman to keep a fetus alive? You seem to be giving the fetus more rights than Sandy. The question of forcing someone to keep Sandy alive is a much different question. I might, for example, think it a good thing that someone donate a kidney to someone else that they might live, but that is not the same as thinking we ought to force that person to undergo surgery to extract their kidney against their will.Izquierdo.
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
And yet you support the idea of the government telling you you can't do it. ... I'd have to think and pray it through a thousand times before I could decide, and I could never criticize anyone who chose that solution.Izquierdo.
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
So you agree that governments shouldn't try to ban abortion. Good for you. Actually I'd rather persuade people that they don't really want to kill their child than get the government involved in any of it. Edited by ringo, : Fixed quote.Izquierdo.
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
It's not another human being. Even you have agreed that abortion is not murder, haven't you? Yes, you absurdly and immorally put personal liberty above the llfe of another human being.Izquierdo.
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Sarah Bellum writes:
Either way, it's dictating healthcare to the person. It's the difference between forcing a person to undertake a medical procedure for the purpose of keeping Sandy (the adult human who will die if you don't undergo the procedure) and requiring a person to refrain from undertaking a medical procedure that would result in the death of a fetus.Izquierdo.
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
That's a pretty left-handed way of "not commenting". (I won't even venture to comment on the reversals and duplicity that attend the other discussions going on here today, but this is one day when everything here is so sickeningly upside down, with lles, llbel, illogic, partisan slime throwing called reasoning and worse it's hard to believe.)Izquierdo.
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Nearly all of them do - and nearly none of them consider abortion murder. Remember what murder is? That thing where we throw the perpetrators in prison or even execute them? I did think that all sane societies had laws against murder which hadn't been transcended anywhere.Izquierdo.
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
That's nonsense. The danger to the nation is idolizing the founding fathers and clinging to their eighteenth-century solutions for our twenty-first-century problems. It gives me a stomachache to see that anyone would trash the American founders as you and others do. You are courting complete anarchy and the destruction of the nation.Izquierdo.
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