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Author Topic:   Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor?
edge
Member (Idle past 605 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 1126 of 1385 (853717)
05-31-2019 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1122 by Dredge
05-31-2019 12:32 AM


Re: YEC vs OEC
But I do believe it’s valid (except for little matter of falsifiability) - I just don’t believe its true.

Ah, so it's valid but not true. Thank you for the clarification.

Okay, then, let me reword my question. If your theory is not true, why have you spent 70 some pages defending it?

Since when did a scientific theory have to be believed to be a fact to be vaild?

I never said that you believe it or that you should believe it. That's kind of the point.

A valid theory should have some evidence to support it, however. So far, you have not provided evidence that supports your theory at all, much less why it should be preferred over another theory.

Then how are you going to learn?

Learn what?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1122 by Dredge, posted 05-31-2019 12:32 AM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1155 by Dredge, posted 06-03-2019 1:19 AM edge has responded
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edge
Member (Idle past 605 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 1127 of 1385 (853719)
05-31-2019 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1117 by Dredge
05-31-2019 12:02 AM


Re: Progressive Creation and Aliens (oh my) - no predictive ability - take 2
Translation: “I can’t bring myself to admit that there is no known fossil evidence of evolutionary links between the Ediacaran biota and the Cambrian trilobites.”

Translation of the translation: "I can't possibly bring myself to admit that there is a well-established continuum of life forms from the first signs of life to the modern living communities."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1117 by Dredge, posted 05-31-2019 12:02 AM Dredge has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19078
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 1128 of 1385 (853749)
05-31-2019 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1118 by Dredge
05-31-2019 12:14 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Dredge writes:

Do you have any idea of the calibre of human you're talking to?


About .12 caliber.

Izquierdo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1118 by Dredge, posted 05-31-2019 12:14 AM Dredge has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8482
Joined: 03-06-2009


Message 1129 of 1385 (853753)
05-31-2019 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1109 by Dredge
05-30-2019 12:25 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Dredge writes:

It's also an observable fact that after thousands of years of animal and plant breeding, using even unnatural methods such as inbreeding to produce gross mutations, it never occurred to anyone that plants and animals could be breed to became something radically different to the original species ...

Inbreeding reduces genetic variation, for a start. Also, please explain why genetic variation accumulated over just a few thousand years in bottlenecked populations should be equivalent to the genetic variation accumulated in wild populations over 100's of millions of years.


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DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2177
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.7


(7)
Message 1130 of 1385 (853770)
05-31-2019 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1118 by Dredge
05-31-2019 12:14 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
this is the internet, loud mouth assholes like you are a dime a dozen.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1118 by Dredge, posted 05-31-2019 12:14 AM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 1144 by Dredge, posted 06-02-2019 2:10 AM DrJones* has responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8482
Joined: 03-06-2009


Message 1131 of 1385 (853773)
05-31-2019 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1121 by Dredge
05-31-2019 12:24 AM


Re: aliens-did-it is not a scientific theory
Dredge writes:

The mechanism is genetic engineering. Ever heard of it? It produces observed, repeatable macroevolutions.

Genetic engineering does not produce a phylogenetic signal. Evolution does. What do we see? A phylogenetic signal.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1121 by Dredge, posted 05-31-2019 12:24 AM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 1147 by Dredge, posted 06-02-2019 3:13 AM Taq has responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 1132 of 1385 (853774)
05-31-2019 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1130 by DrJones*
05-31-2019 2:29 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
He thinks he's a special kind of loud mouth asshole.

He should have seen talk.origins in the 90's. Karl Crawford, Ted Holden, Zoe Althrop...

He's a dilettante. Those trolls were dedicated to their craft for years.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1130 by DrJones*, posted 05-31-2019 2:29 PM DrJones* has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 1133 of 1385 (853775)
05-31-2019 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1131 by Taq
05-31-2019 3:39 PM


Re: aliens-did-it is not a scientific theory
Aliens could choose to replicate a phylogenetic signal. Easy-peasy

There's an answer to every question, and yet there's no answers.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1131 by Taq, posted 05-31-2019 3:39 PM Taq has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Stile
Member
Posts: 4041
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(1)
Message 1134 of 1385 (853776)
05-31-2019 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1133 by JonF
05-31-2019 3:45 PM


Re: aliens-did-it is not a scientific theory
JonF writes:

There's an answer response to every question, and yet there's no answers.

Fixed it.
Verification of the conman confirmed.

Snake oil! Snake oil, I say!!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1133 by JonF, posted 05-31-2019 3:45 PM JonF has not yet responded

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3839
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001


Message 1135 of 1385 (853816)
06-01-2019 1:02 AM
Reply to: Message 1111 by edge
05-30-2019 10:49 AM


Re: YEC vs OEC
It's got nothing to do with the CC selling out to theistic evolution, but everything to do with reinterpreting Scripture in light of scientific discoveries ... as opposed to denying reality and clinging to an unenlightened sixteenth-century exegesis.

I suppose you would know more about the inconsistencies of religious beliefs than I would, but how do you know that the CC is not "reinterpreting Scripture in light of scientific discoveries" also?

CC = Catholic Church I presume?

I interpreted Dredge's statement as saying the CC is indeed "reinterpreting Scripture in light of scientific discoveries".

Moose


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1111 by edge, posted 05-30-2019 10:49 AM edge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1136 by edge, posted 06-01-2019 10:35 AM Minnemooseus has acknowledged this reply

  
edge
Member (Idle past 605 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 1136 of 1385 (853828)
06-01-2019 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 1135 by Minnemooseus
06-01-2019 1:02 AM


Re: YEC vs OEC
I interpreted Dredge's statement as saying the CC is indeed "reinterpreting Scripture in light of scientific discoveries".

That's probably right. I shouldn't inject my comments into religious inconsistencies.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1135 by Minnemooseus, posted 06-01-2019 1:02 AM Minnemooseus has acknowledged this reply

  
Meddle
Member (Idle past 170 days)
Posts: 179
From: Scotland
Joined: 05-08-2006


Message 1137 of 1385 (853874)
06-01-2019 10:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1109 by Dredge
05-30-2019 12:25 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
It's also an observable fact that after thousands of years of animal and plant breeding, using even unnatural methods such as inbreeding to produce gross mutations, it never occurred to anyone that plants and animals could be breed to became something radically different to the original species

I’m not trying to get all Shelbyville Manhattan, but why do you describe inbreeding as unnatural? Yes as Taq correctly pointed out this reduces genetic variation, which means that there will be an increased probability that detrimental traits will be expressed, as well as beneficial traits. The reason this is a problem when we look at modern humans is that dying from a genetic disorder is a tragedy that could be avoided. Similarly, in terms of livestock, food plants (I don’t know the technical term for that) and I suppose pets, the detrimental effects can be mitigated by how we manipulate the environment that these organisms live in. It’s also worth pointing out that inbreeding doesn’t create mutations, since they happen all the time, but the environment we create allows the detrimental mutations to propagate at the same time as we try to maximise our artificially selected preferential mutations. It is for these reasons that our perception of what genetic mutations can accomplish can become skewed

But in nature for plants and animals, including us not too long ago, things are different. All things being equal, a significant majority of offspring in each generation will die from lack of resources, predation or disease. Individuals held back by their genes will die off, freeing up resources that those individuals who have an advantage through their genes can use to thrive. Sometimes this differential between advantage and disadvantage can occur within a single brood. This means advantageous mutations can propagate through a population more quickly, while disadvantageous mutations can be removed without lingering, like in the artificial environments we create.

Edited by Meddle, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1109 by Dredge, posted 05-30-2019 12:25 AM Dredge has not yet responded

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1295
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1138 of 1385 (853878)
06-02-2019 12:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1101 by AZPaul3
05-29-2019 5:24 AM


AZPaul3 writes:

I added the video to show everyone else in the lurk-o-sphere there is both utility and applied use to the theory.


... and you failed miserably. No one here knows what the hell you're talking about.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1101 by AZPaul3, posted 05-29-2019 5:24 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
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Dredge
Member
Posts: 1295
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1139 of 1385 (853879)
06-02-2019 1:07 AM
Reply to: Message 1102 by AZPaul3
05-29-2019 5:35 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
AZPaul3 writes:

We already know how macroevolution occurred. The fossil record shows us that microevolution over many thousand generations is macroevolution. The fossils tell us what happened and Genetics tells us the chemistry. That's how.


You seemed to have missed the point. I not talking about your "macro = micro + time" theory; I talking about what fossils tell us - they tell us WHAT happened, not HOW it happened. Science cannot determine HOW the history of life unfolded; it can only guess.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1102 by AZPaul3, posted 05-29-2019 5:35 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1148 by AZPaul3, posted 06-02-2019 3:34 AM Dredge has not yet responded
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Dredge
Member
Posts: 1295
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1140 of 1385 (853880)
06-02-2019 1:17 AM
Reply to: Message 1102 by AZPaul3
05-29-2019 5:35 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
AZPaul3 writes:

We already know how macroevolution occurred … It's all covered in the The Theory of Evolution.


So you "know" ToE is true? If so, why do you call it the "THEORY of evolution" and not the "FACT of evolution"?

Furthermore, since you "know how macroevolution occurred", please explain how you would use the principles of ToE to breed reptiles into mammals. Or fish into amphibians? Can you even begin to explain how you would go about achieving such feats? Can't wait for your answers!

And while you're thinking that over, let me remind you of what happens when dog breeders, for example, try too hard to "evolve" dogs - harmful mutations arise, producing weak, unfit animals. These mutations are so severe that they seriously limit how much selective breeding can achieve in terms of changing the original animal. So if dog breeders come up against a genetic "brick wall" and can't get even remotely close to breeding a non-dog from a dog, how the hell are you going to breed a mammal from a reptile, or an amphibian from a fish?

Oh, and another thingt: The only way dog breeders can produce radical mutations is by grossly reducing the genetic diversity of the population. So how does your Darwinist macroevolution manage to produce an INCREASE in diversity?

It seems to me that there's a substantial disconnect between your evo-fantasy and reality.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1102 by AZPaul3, posted 05-29-2019 5:35 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
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