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Author Topic:   Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor?
Dredge
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1095 of 1385 (853568)
05-29-2019 4:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1056 by RAZD
05-22-2019 3:00 PM


Re: YEC vs OEC
RAZD writes:
“Progressive creationism . In this view creation occurred in rapid bursts in which all "kinds" of plants and animals appear in stages lasting millions of years. The bursts are followed by periods of stasis or equilibrium to accommodate new arrivals. These bursts represent instances of God creating new types of organisms by divine intervention. As viewed from the archaeological record, progressive creationism holds that "species do not gradually appear by the steady transformation of its ancestors; [but] appear all at once and "fully formed."”
You assume this is my position, but your assumption is wrong. Apart from the creation of man, I accept the same history life as you do (although the explanation for that history obviously differs).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1056 by RAZD, posted 05-22-2019 3:00 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1096 of 1385 (853569)
05-29-2019 4:15 AM
Reply to: Message 1059 by RAZD
05-22-2019 3:21 PM


Re: does a species from one genus evolve into a species from another genus ... yes
RAZD writes:
Dredge writes:
Not even the reptile-jaw to mammalian-inner-ear fossil sequence demonstrates microevolutionary changes.
Wrong.
So, about ten fossils spanning a period of millions of years demonstrate microevolutionary steps? I think you’re a few fossils short to make that claim - by about a thousand . at least.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1059 by RAZD, posted 05-22-2019 3:21 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1099 by AZPaul3, posted 05-29-2019 4:48 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 1123 by RAZD, posted 05-31-2019 7:55 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1097 of 1385 (853570)
05-29-2019 4:19 AM
Reply to: Message 1074 by vimesey
05-27-2019 1:52 AM


Re: YEC vs OEC
vimesey writes:
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then.
What a pity you haven't recognised all my other nuts of wisdom

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1074 by vimesey, posted 05-27-2019 1:52 AM vimesey has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1098 of 1385 (853571)
05-29-2019 4:22 AM
Reply to: Message 1075 by JonF
05-27-2019 9:22 AM


Re: Restating the question
JonF writes:
The similarly is well over 90%.
. of a fraction of the total genome - that's the point

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1075 by JonF, posted 05-27-2019 9:22 AM JonF has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1103 by JonF, posted 05-29-2019 9:13 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1100 of 1385 (853574)
05-29-2019 5:07 AM
Reply to: Message 1086 by Tanypteryx
05-28-2019 1:00 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Tanyptyerx writes:
Tanypteryx writes:
as more evidence is discovered we can understand more and more about how it occurred in the past.
Dredge writes:
Nonsense. You are evo-extrapolating into the realms of evo-fantasy.
Nope, I'm just reading reports of interesting new fossil finds all the time.
You're ignoring my point: You can dig up all the fossils you like, but they don't tell us HOW macroevolution occurred. Neo-Darwinism is found wanting when trying to explain the fossil record:
"As can be noted from the listed principles, current evolutionary theory is predominantly oriented towards a genetic explanation of variation, and, except for some minor semantic modifications, this has not changed over the past seven or eight decades. Whatever lip service is paid to taking into account other factors than those traditionally accepted, we find that the theory, as presented in extant writings, concentrates on a limited set of evolutionary explananda, excluding the majority of those mentioned among the explanatory goals above. The theory performs well with regard to the issues it concentrates on, providing testable and abundantly confirmed predictions on the dynamics of genetic variation in evolving populations, on the gradual variation and adaptation of phenotypic traits, and on certain genetic features of speciation. If the explanation would stop here, no controversy would exist. But it has become habitual in evolutionary biology to take population genetics as the privileged type of explanation of all evolutionary phenomena, thereby negating the fact that, on the one hand, not all of its predictions can be confirmed under all circumstances, and, on the other hand, a wealth of evolutionary phenomena remains excluded. For instance, the theory largely avoids the question of how the complex organizations of organismal structure, physiology, development or behavior ” whose variation it describes ” actually arise in evolution, and it also provides no adequate means for including factors that are not part of the population genetic framework, such as developmental, systems theoretical, ecological or cultural influences."
Gerd Muller, “Why an extended evolutionary synthesis is necessary.”
Evolutionary Theorist Concedes: Evolution Largely Avoids Biggest Questions of Biological Origins | Evolution News
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1086 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-28-2019 1:00 AM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1102 by AZPaul3, posted 05-29-2019 5:35 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 1104 by edge, posted 05-29-2019 10:21 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 1115 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-30-2019 12:54 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1109 of 1385 (853642)
05-30-2019 12:25 AM
Reply to: Message 1108 by Taq
05-29-2019 2:47 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Taq writes:
Every individual in every generation is born with mutations which increases genetic variation. This is an observable fact.
It's also an observable fact that after thousands of years of animal and plant breeding, using even unnatural methods such as inbreeding to produce gross mutations, it never occurred to anyone that plants and animals could be breed to became something radically different to the original species ... until the atheist fairy tale of Darwinism came along and hijacked science, that is.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1108 by Taq, posted 05-29-2019 2:47 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1129 by Taq, posted 05-31-2019 12:34 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 1137 by Meddle, posted 06-01-2019 10:21 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1110 of 1385 (853644)
05-30-2019 12:34 AM
Reply to: Message 1077 by Faith
05-27-2019 10:13 AM


Re: YEC vs OEC
Faith writes:
I suppose this is probably his way of accepting the Catholic nonsense about evolution
It's got nothing to do with the CC selling out to theistic evolution, but everything to do with reinterpreting Scripture in light of scientific discoveries ... as opposed to denying reality and clinging to an unenlightened sixteenth-century exegesis.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1077 by Faith, posted 05-27-2019 10:13 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Dredge
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1117 of 1385 (853701)
05-31-2019 12:02 AM
Reply to: Message 1080 by Tanypteryx
05-28-2019 12:23 AM


Re: Progressive Creation and Aliens (oh my) - no predictive ability - take 2
Tanypteryx writes:
Dredge writes:
What organism from the Ediacaran biota is the evolutionary ancestor of trilobites?
I guess since YOU don't know, there must not be an answer.
Translation: “I can’t bring myself to admit that there is no known fossil evidence of evolutionary links between the Ediacaran biota and the Cambrian trilobites.”

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1080 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-28-2019 12:23 AM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1119 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-31-2019 12:21 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 1127 by edge, posted 05-31-2019 9:56 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1118 of 1385 (853702)
05-31-2019 12:14 AM
Reply to: Message 1086 by Tanypteryx
05-28-2019 1:00 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Tanypteryx writes:
typing a bunch of of repeating HAs may be a coherent argument if you're 12.
How dare you! Do you have any idea of the calibre of human you're talking to?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1086 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-28-2019 1:00 AM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1120 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-31-2019 12:24 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 1125 by JonF, posted 05-31-2019 9:31 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 1128 by ringo, posted 05-31-2019 12:21 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 1130 by DrJones*, posted 05-31-2019 2:29 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1121 of 1385 (853705)
05-31-2019 12:24 AM
Reply to: Message 1089 by RAZD
05-28-2019 6:53 AM


Re: aliens-did-it is not a scientific theory
razd writes:
Except it is not logically consistent to propose unknown unobserved aliens when your actual belief is otherwise
I fear you are talking nonsense. Accepting “the best scientific explanation” has nothing to do with believing that theory is the truth.
there is an existing theory that adequately explains the evidence.
Let this be the last time you speak of this pathetic atheist delusion.
Nor do you have any actual evidence of aliens, nor any actual mechanism for achieving the purported process and you have no evidence of that process being anything other than standard ToE processes ...
1. How many folks claim to have seen UFOs or aliens? Thousands.
How folks claim to have seen a reptile evolve into a mammal via Darwinian processes? Zero.
2. The mechanism is genetic engineering. Ever heard of it? It produces observed, repeatable macroevolutions. Google it and learn . then wake up and grow up out of your primitive, simplistic, nineteenth-century Darwinist superstition. I suggest this for you own good.
.. and it doesn't appear to be falsifiable
I can’t at this juncture think of a way to falsify my theory - but I will let the world know when I do.
the ToE ... is chock full of actual observed mechanisms and actual observed processes,
. which do nothing more than describe limited variations within a population. To get from this to an explanation for the fossil record, one needs to add huge doses of wild extrapolation and wishful thinking . as well as being blessed with a very vivid imagination.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1089 by RAZD, posted 05-28-2019 6:53 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1124 by RAZD, posted 05-31-2019 8:19 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 1131 by Taq, posted 05-31-2019 3:39 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1122 of 1385 (853706)
05-31-2019 12:32 AM
Reply to: Message 1090 by edge
05-28-2019 9:23 AM


Re: YEC vs OEC
edge writes:
if you don't believe your 'scientific theory' is valid
But I do believe it’s valid (except for little matter of falsifiability) - I just don’t believe its true. Since when did a scientific theory have to be believed to be a fact to be vaild?
Believe it or not, I don't read all of your posts
Then how are you going to learn?
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1090 by edge, posted 05-28-2019 9:23 AM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1126 by edge, posted 05-31-2019 9:31 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1138 of 1385 (853878)
06-02-2019 12:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1101 by AZPaul3
05-29-2019 5:24 AM


AZPaul3 writes:
I added the video to show everyone else in the lurk-o-sphere there is both utility and applied use to the theory.
... and you failed miserably. No one here knows what the hell you're talking about.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1101 by AZPaul3, posted 05-29-2019 5:24 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1146 by AZPaul3, posted 06-02-2019 3:06 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1139 of 1385 (853879)
06-02-2019 1:07 AM
Reply to: Message 1102 by AZPaul3
05-29-2019 5:35 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
AZPaul3 writes:
We already know how macroevolution occurred. The fossil record shows us that microevolution over many thousand generations is macroevolution. The fossils tell us what happened and Genetics tells us the chemistry. That's how.
You seemed to have missed the point. I not talking about your "macro = micro + time" theory; I talking about what fossils tell us - they tell us WHAT happened, not HOW it happened. Science cannot determine HOW the history of life unfolded; it can only guess.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1102 by AZPaul3, posted 05-29-2019 5:35 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1148 by AZPaul3, posted 06-02-2019 3:34 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 1163 by Taq, posted 06-03-2019 6:18 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1140 of 1385 (853880)
06-02-2019 1:17 AM
Reply to: Message 1102 by AZPaul3
05-29-2019 5:35 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
AZPaul3 writes:
We already know how macroevolution occurred . It's all covered in the The Theory of Evolution.
So you "know" ToE is true? If so, why do you call it the "THEORY of evolution" and not the "FACT of evolution"?
Furthermore, since you "know how macroevolution occurred", please explain how you would use the principles of ToE to breed reptiles into mammals. Or fish into amphibians? Can you even begin to explain how you would go about achieving such feats? Can't wait for your answers!
And while you're thinking that over, let me remind you of what happens when dog breeders, for example, try too hard to "evolve" dogs - harmful mutations arise, producing weak, unfit animals. These mutations are so severe that they seriously limit how much selective breeding can achieve in terms of changing the original animal. So if dog breeders come up against a genetic "brick wall" and can't get even remotely close to breeding a non-dog from a dog, how the hell are you going to breed a mammal from a reptile, or an amphibian from a fish?
Oh, and another thingt: The only way dog breeders can produce radical mutations is by grossly reducing the genetic diversity of the population. So how does your Darwinist macroevolution manage to produce an INCREASE in diversity?
It seems to me that there's a substantial disconnect between your evo-fantasy and reality.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1102 by AZPaul3, posted 05-29-2019 5:35 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1149 by AZPaul3, posted 06-02-2019 4:47 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1141 of 1385 (853881)
06-02-2019 1:26 AM
Reply to: Message 1105 by Faith
05-29-2019 11:07 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Faith writes:
You might get what you laughably believe to be "speciation," which is really nothing but a variety of the same creature that's so genetically depleted it's lost the ability to continue breeding with the parent population. Then you fantasize further variation from there which is impossible but you haven't noticed.
Well said, Faith. Apparently, Green Warblers speciating into more Green Warblers is solid evidence that a reptile can evolve into a mammal ... this is passed off as good science! Unfortunately for the space-cadets and charlatans down at Darwinism Central, the truth is, Green Warblers speciating into more Green Warblers demonstrates nothing more than Green Warblers speciating into more Green Warblers.
And to make matters even more comicial, evolutionists claim that Green Warblers speciating into more Green Warblers qualifies as "macroevolution"!
Well, I guess all those atheist pseudo-scientists have no choice but to accept the fantastic evo' tale - junk science is as good as it gets. And we have to keep in mind that we’re trying to reason with irrational dreamers who think it’s “scientific” to believe that life can arise from inanimate matter.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1105 by Faith, posted 05-29-2019 11:07 AM Faith has not replied

  
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