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Author Topic:   Any practical use for Universal Common Ancestor?
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1295
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1141 of 1385 (853881)
06-02-2019 1:26 AM
Reply to: Message 1105 by Faith
05-29-2019 11:07 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Faith writes:

You might get what you laughably believe to be "speciation," which is really nothing but a variety of the same creature that's so genetically depleted it's lost the ability to continue breeding with the parent population. Then you fantasize further variation from there which is impossible but you haven't noticed.


Well said, Faith. Apparently, Green Warblers speciating into more Green Warblers is solid evidence that a reptile can evolve into a mammal ... this is passed off as good science! Unfortunately for the space-cadets and charlatans down at Darwinism Central, the truth is, Green Warblers speciating into more Green Warblers demonstrates nothing more than Green Warblers speciating into more Green Warblers.
And to make matters even more comicial, evolutionists claim that Green Warblers speciating into more Green Warblers qualifies as "macroevolution"!

Well, I guess all those atheist pseudo-scientists have no choice but to accept the fantastic evo' tale - junk science is as good as it gets. And we have to keep in mind that we’re trying to reason with irrational dreamers who think it’s “scientific” to believe that life can arise from inanimate matter.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1105 by Faith, posted 05-29-2019 11:07 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1295
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1142 of 1385 (853882)
06-02-2019 1:32 AM
Reply to: Message 1107 by caffeine
05-29-2019 2:16 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
You raise some valid points ... which is probably why Mayr suggested the definition of macroevolution rest on a level of "genus OR EVEN HIGHER" (at least, that's what someone told me Mayr said - I don't have his original quote). Perhaps the higher one goes, the less ambiguous classification gets.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1107 by caffeine, posted 05-29-2019 2:16 PM caffeine has not yet responded

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1295
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1143 of 1385 (853883)
06-02-2019 1:38 AM
Reply to: Message 1115 by Tanypteryx
05-30-2019 12:54 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Tanypteryx writes:

We already know how macroevolution occurs


I greatly fear you’re suffering a delusion. The truth is, you only THINK you know how macroevolution occurs – you’re conflating your personal belief and a scientific theory. All we “know” is how MICROevolutions occur. You don’t even “know” that microevolutions lead to macroevolution. because you can’t demonstrate it is so.

Furthermore, since you “know how macroevolution occurs”, you won’t have any trouble telling me how you would go about breeding a mammal from a reptile. Good luck with that.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1115 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-30-2019 12:54 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1145 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-02-2019 2:24 AM Dredge has responded

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1295
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1144 of 1385 (853884)
06-02-2019 2:10 AM
Reply to: Message 1130 by DrJones*
05-31-2019 2:29 PM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
DrJones writes:

this is the internet, loud mouth assholes like you are a dime a dozen.


I greatly admire you debating skills and your clever arguments. But most of all I admire your sense of humour.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1130 by DrJones*, posted 05-31-2019 2:29 PM DrJones* has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1151 by DrJones*, posted 06-02-2019 12:10 PM Dredge has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2499
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 1145 of 1385 (853885)
06-02-2019 2:24 AM
Reply to: Message 1143 by Dredge
06-02-2019 1:38 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Dredge writes:

I greatly fear you’re suffering a delusion.

I knew you did.

Dredge writes:

The truth is, you only THINK you know how macroevolution occurs

The truth is, you only THINK you know what I think I know about how macroevolution occurs.

Dredge writes:

you’re conflating your personal belief and a scientific theory.

You're mixing personal belief and bullshit.

Dredge writes:

All we “know” is how MICROevolutions occur.

You don't know how microevolution occurs. You have demonstrated this numerous times.

Dredge writes:

You don’t even “know” that microevolutions lead to macroevolution. because you can’t demonstrate it is so

And you can't demonstrate it is not.

Dredge writes:

Furthermore, since you “know how macroevolution occurs”, you won’t have any trouble telling me how you would go about breeding a mammal from a reptile. Good luck with that.

I don't give a shit about reptiles and mammals, I'm in charge of the important ones, INSECTS.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1143 by Dredge, posted 06-02-2019 1:38 AM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1154 by Dredge, posted 06-03-2019 1:00 AM Tanypteryx has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5838
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 1146 of 1385 (853888)
06-02-2019 3:06 AM
Reply to: Message 1138 by Dredge
06-02-2019 12:56 AM


AZPaul3 writes:
I added the video to show everyone else in the lurk-o-sphere there is both utility and applied use to the theory.

... and you failed miserably. No one here knows what the hell you're talking about.

I'm sure most of the folk out there knew exactly what the subject was and what the video presented. Again, it was not for you.

But, you, not knowing what you're talking about, was the very reason it was presented.

In this case we kept the video away from you so as to not confuse you. We know how facts and reality confuse you.

Don't feel bad, Dredge, we know where your intellectual failures are and we are trying to compensate for them.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1138 by Dredge, posted 06-02-2019 12:56 AM Dredge has not yet responded

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1295
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1147 of 1385 (853889)
06-02-2019 3:13 AM
Reply to: Message 1131 by Taq
05-31-2019 3:39 PM


Re: aliens-did-it is not a scientific theory
So, you can demonstrate this it's impossible for genetic engineering to produuce a phylogenetic signal?

Btw, is a phylogeneitic signal detectable in the fossil record?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1131 by Taq, posted 05-31-2019 3:39 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1162 by Taq, posted 06-03-2019 6:15 PM Dredge has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5838
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


(2)
Message 1148 of 1385 (853890)
06-02-2019 3:34 AM
Reply to: Message 1139 by Dredge
06-02-2019 1:07 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
AZPaul3 writes:
We already know how macroevolution occurred. The fossil record shows us that microevolution over many thousand generations is macroevolution. The fossils tell us what happened and Genetics tells us the chemistry. That's how.
You seemed to have missed the point. I not talking about your "macro = micro + time" theory; I talking about what fossils tell us - they tell us WHAT happened, not HOW it happened.

Yes, of course, I should have adjusted for your reading comprehension problem.

Notice in my message I said "The fossils tell us what happened ..." while in your message you complain "You seemed to have missed the point. ... I talking about what fossils tell us - they tell us WHAT happened...".

For anyone with a reading comprehension above 4th grade these two statements are equivalent.

Sorry to have confused you yet again.

Science cannot determine HOW the history of life unfolded; it can only guess.

More confusion.

Science has determined how life unfolded. You are just too confused by your own blind religious stupidity to acknowledge or understand. And then you get hung up on some gap or other in the fossil record then act like the the rest of the record doesn't exist.

Again, the Theory of Evolution with both its fossils and its chemistry, tells us HOW the history of life unfolded.

And no, I didn't miss any point. I WAS talking "macro = micro + time" theory and so were you. It's been a side topic in this thread for quite a few messages.

You may need to go back and re-read this thread. I think we've reached beyond your intellectual capacity and you need to refresh to catch up ... again.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1139 by Dredge, posted 06-02-2019 1:07 AM Dredge has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1150 by edge, posted 06-02-2019 12:02 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5838
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


(1)
Message 1149 of 1385 (853892)
06-02-2019 4:47 AM
Reply to: Message 1140 by Dredge
06-02-2019 1:17 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
So you "know" ToE is true? If so, why do you call it the "THEORY of evolution" and not the "FACT of evolution"?

Are you kidding me?

This YEC trope has been around forever. It was an intellectually vacuous argument decades ago and is downright stupid now.

You are a YEC. And a rather dumb one at that.

Furthermore, since you "know how macroevolution occurred", please explain how you would use the principles of ToE to breed reptiles into mammals. Or fish into amphibians?

OK. But only the mammal one.

So first you get a population of amniotes which evolve into the synapsids, and the sauropsids. The synapsids begat the Eupelycosaurs who begat the sphenacodontians who then begat the Sphenacodontids who then begat the Therapsids who finally begat the mammals. And at each begat we're talking millions of years of microevolution with lots of intermediate begats in between each of those.

That was easy.

So if dog breeders come up against a genetic "brick wall" and can't get even remotely close to breeding a non-dog from a dog, how the hell are you going to breed a mammal from a reptile, or an amphibian from a fish?

Well, you see, Dredge, dog breeders are not looking to breed a non-dog. They want to breed only a specific type of dog with a highly restrictive set of features. So they inbreed closely related animals which restricts the resultant gene pool for that breed leading to deformities. Artificial selection does that.

The only time natural selection does that is when some disaster constricts the breeding population to the point that only closely related animals breed which restricts the resultant gene pool for that population leading to deformities. Like today's Cheetahs.

Otherwise, natural selection allows breeding across multiple genetically diverse populations leading to even greater genetic diversity.

So that's how you get around this fictitious "brick wall" your strawman invented.

So how does your Darwinist macroevolution manage to produce an INCREASE in diversity?

Easy. It draws from a more diverse gene pool which in turn adds yet more diversity to the gene pool. 

Don't think too hard on the thing. It's chemistry and math and you know those are way beyond your capabilities.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1140 by Dredge, posted 06-02-2019 1:17 AM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1167 by Dredge, posted 06-04-2019 2:23 AM AZPaul3 has responded
 Message 1168 by Dredge, posted 06-04-2019 2:32 AM AZPaul3 has responded

  
edge
Member (Idle past 608 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


(3)
Message 1150 of 1385 (853904)
06-02-2019 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1148 by AZPaul3
06-02-2019 3:34 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Again, the Theory of Evolution with both its fossils and its chemistry, tells us HOW the history of life unfolded.

I think this is an important point.

Dredge harangues us that the fossils don't tell us how life changed over time. Here, you point out that there is more than just the fossils.

Like most anti-evos, Dredge is only capable of looking at one line of evidence at a time, conveniently ignoring known chemistry, biology, physics, relative dating and general evolutionary patterns, along with the damning fact that there is no evidence to support his position. It's like he's examining one particular set of fossils under a microscope at one moment in time, while ignoring the library of existing knowledge around him.

There's really not much new in the basic operation of Dredge's line of reasoning. It's what we've seen from YECs since the beginning of discussion boards such as this. The idea is to attack a single detail in an incomplete and imperfect knowledge base and apply that uncertainty to the entire body of knowledge. Since he has the certainty borne of ignorance, it makes sense to criticize real science. To most people trained in the sciences, the argument becomes nothing but irrelevant gibberish.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1148 by AZPaul3, posted 06-02-2019 3:34 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 1169 by Dredge, posted 06-04-2019 2:36 AM edge has responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2177
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 7.3


(1)
Message 1151 of 1385 (853905)
06-02-2019 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1144 by Dredge
06-02-2019 2:10 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
ah that's sweet but you shouldn't waste your time flirting with me, i like women

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1144 by Dredge, posted 06-02-2019 2:10 AM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1170 by Dredge, posted 06-04-2019 2:42 AM DrJones* has not yet responded

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1295
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1152 of 1385 (853943)
06-03-2019 12:54 AM
Reply to: Message 1089 by RAZD
05-28-2019 6:53 AM


Re: aliens-did-it is not a scientific theory
RAZD writes:

it doesn't appear to be falsifiable


Okay, so how do you falsify the theory that

"Macroevolution = Microevolutions + Time" ?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1089 by RAZD, posted 05-28-2019 6:53 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1161 by RAZD, posted 06-03-2019 11:38 AM Dredge has not yet responded

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1295
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1153 of 1385 (853944)
06-03-2019 12:58 AM
Reply to: Message 1119 by Tanypteryx
05-31-2019 12:21 AM


Re: Progressive Creation and Aliens (oh my) - no predictive ability - take 2
Tanyptyerx writes:

Nope, it's more like, So what? If we don't have answers to all the questions that's a good thing, because it means we have lots of things to challenge us, new discoveries to find, it makes life interesting.


I appreciate that, as an atheist, you have no choice but to believe the Darwinist narrative - even if creatures appear out of nowhere in the fossil record. In a thousand years' time, atheists will still be using this excuse - "the fossil record is incomplete!"

Those poor little trilobites: They gaze up from the fossil beds asking, "Where did I come from?"


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1119 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-31-2019 12:21 AM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1158 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-03-2019 1:38 AM Dredge has not yet responded
 Message 1165 by Meddle, posted 06-03-2019 9:51 PM Dredge has responded

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1295
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1154 of 1385 (853945)
06-03-2019 1:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1145 by Tanypteryx
06-02-2019 2:24 AM


Re: Another useful application of evolutionary theory
Tanyptyerx writes:

I don't give a shit about reptiles and mammals, I'm in charge of the important ones, INSECTS.


Let me get this straight … You’re a professional biologist and you claim to “know how macroevolution occurs”, yet you are clueless as to how you would breed a mammal from a reptile? Okay, well let’s try something really simple: How would you breed a double-cell organism from a single-cell organism?
Not your area of expertise? Fair enough; how about this then ... How would you breed an insect with wings from an insect without wings?

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1145 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-02-2019 2:24 AM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1157 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-03-2019 1:27 AM Dredge has responded

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 1295
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 1155 of 1385 (853946)
06-03-2019 1:19 AM
Reply to: Message 1126 by edge
05-31-2019 9:31 AM


Re: YEC vs OEC
edge writes:

Okay, then, let me reword my question. If your theory is not true, why have you spent 70 some pages defending it?


Haven’t I already answered this question? For your sake, I will reiterate: I believe my “aliens” theory is the best SCIENTIFIC explanation for the fossil record, according to the parameters set by modern science – ie, methodological naturalism. However, since I believe there is more to reality than methodological naturalism, I don’t believe my “aliens” theory is the best explanation for the fossil record (notice how I didn’t say “the best SCIENTIFIC explanation”). I believe the best explanation for the fossil record is a non-scientific explanation.

So I have two explanations for the fossil record, depending on which “game” I’m playing. Are you familiar with the term, “Horses for courses”?

I never said that you believe it or that you should believe it. That's kind of the point.

But you can believe that a theory is false - even if you believe it's the best scientific theory available.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1126 by edge, posted 05-31-2019 9:31 AM edge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1159 by edge, posted 06-03-2019 10:50 AM Dredge has responded
 Message 1164 by Taq, posted 06-03-2019 6:20 PM Dredge has not yet responded

  
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