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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Conservative Racism

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Author Topic:   Conservative Racism
JonF
Member (Idle past 167 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 76 of 953 (854245)
06-06-2019 9:18 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by Theodoric
06-05-2019 9:36 PM


Re: No this is not about racism
She has no idea what those labels mean. They're just incantations to ward off what scares her.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Theodoric, posted 06-05-2019 9:36 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 77 of 953 (854246)
06-06-2019 9:20 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by LamarkNewAge
06-06-2019 1:08 AM


Re: Democrats and Republicans.
The Democratic party is unique, among the two political parties, in that it's members get to decide when laws against immigrants can be called "racist" or not.
I always was taught that the Democratic party (in general) attempts to champion sort of a yin-yang dualistic approach to belief...an inclusiveness as it were. I am more of an exclusivist, though I try not to be judgemental except through my unwavering belief that God is judgemental and uncompromising. My sister and several others are attempting to get me to see shades of gray rather than only black and white. Pray for us.
I am a political moderate. And I don't like the idea of legislating morality.
Legistlating Morality
Check out the link.
Edited by Thugpreacha, : fixed spelling gaffes as well as slowing my brain down to a pace that lets me craft a better argument and not see it as a personal attack when they disagree with me.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

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JonF
Member (Idle past 167 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(3)
Message 78 of 953 (854247)
06-06-2019 9:25 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by LamarkNewAge
06-06-2019 1:08 AM


Re: Democrats and Republicans.
I saw some wise words recently.
Republicans oppose Democrats because of what Republicans say Democrats do.
Democrats oppose Republicans because of what Republicans do.
It's true.

This message is a reply to:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 9970
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 79 of 953 (854253)
06-06-2019 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by Faith
06-05-2019 7:29 PM


Re: No this is not about racism
Faith writes:
Marxism leads to Venezuela, it's Christianity that made the prosperity of the West. You really don't get it.
What makes this laughable is that you don't even know what Marxism is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Faith, posted 06-05-2019 7:29 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by Faith, posted 06-06-2019 5:50 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9970
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 80 of 953 (854255)
06-06-2019 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by LamarkNewAge
06-06-2019 1:08 AM


Re: Democrats and Republicans.
LamarkNewAge writes:
t probably should be called the same thing, but the problem is that Republicans will typically not call immigration laws "racist", so there won't even be a loyal opposition to Democratic laws against immigrant's ability to travel freely and to get work.
Immigration policy is just the tip of the iceberg. Listen to what Ingraham said about the change in culture. This has nothing to do with illegal immigration. Legal immigration and demographics are changing our culture, and this is what they don't like. It is expected that white Europeans will be a minority majority at some point in the near future, and this is what they fear.
Just listen to Faith in her posts. A much higher percentage of illegal immigrants coming over our southern border are christians compared to the current US population. This can't be about christianity, so what is it about?
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 81 of 953 (854289)
06-06-2019 3:54 PM


Laura Ingraham is racist
In the absence of any real defence I conclude that the evidence is unanswerable.
Thus we already have one real example - and one that the conservatives here will not openly admit to, let alone criticise.

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by Faith, posted 06-06-2019 6:16 PM PaulK has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 82 of 953 (854294)
06-06-2019 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Taq
06-06-2019 11:06 AM


Marxism
I'm more tuned into Cultural Marxism than economic Marxism but let's see how far I get with the latter: Marxism is basically the idea that the rich or upper classes oppress the poor or lower classes or working classes, and that capitalism serves this system of oppression, so that the lower classes have to be radicalized to hate the upper classes and overthrow them. That's how it got played out in Russia in 1917 and all the other Marxist countries too. Mao had all the educated people killed or imprisoned as members of this supposed oppressor class, not just the rich people. The means of production also had to be removed from the hands of the rich classes and put in the hands of the poor classes.
So when Marxism takes hold, the richer classes, known in the olden days as "the bourgeoisie" or the people who buy and sell things, are done away with along with anyone else suspected of disliking the new policies, and the "workers" take over. In practice this always creates a new ruling class that oppresses and deprives ALL the people which is what is happening in Venezuela while the new rulers get rich and do nothing at all to help the oppressed population.
According to my sources, which you tell me are lying to me, Venezuela used to be an extremely productive and prosperous nation, but when socialism/Marxism took over, the thugs took over, productivity stopped and the people are now starving to death. In Venezuela there is also the problem of the drug lords who hold power.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 83 of 953 (854296)
06-06-2019 6:08 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Faith
06-06-2019 5:50 PM


Re: Marxism contined
continued:
In reality it's not the proletariat or working class that gets power, or only a few of them do, and they become the new oppressive ruling class, but it's the government that has all the power. They take whatever they please from whomever they please, they pretty much completely end all productivity, taking farms away and giving them to people who don't know how to run them and have no motivation to be part of a collective ownership. ALL "dissenters" are executed or sent to some form of "gulag" and the people starve because what really creates a working economy in any nation has been destroyed. The new upper class gets extremely rich, and those who go along with it.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 84 of 953 (854298)
06-06-2019 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by PaulK
06-06-2019 3:54 PM


Re: Laura Ingraham is racist
I don't know if there is a racist component to Laura Ingraham's comments -- or Ann Coulter's either for that matter -- but I can easily enough read it as referring to culture. We want people who will appreciate and work to further the principles of this nation that made us the most prosperous on the earth and the beacon of freedom we've been known for. That takes a commitment to certain principles and people who just come here willynilly hoping to benefit from our prosperity have NO ability to appreciate these things, and those who promote their coming here in great numbers have no such appreciation either, as has been made painfully clear in recent discussions at EvC, so the only thing that can happen is the deterioration of everything that made this country great, the prosperity and the freedoms.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 85 of 953 (854304)
06-06-2019 11:25 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Taq
05-31-2019 3:14 PM


Unless you are descended from one of the indigenous American peoples, this argument doesn't hold much weight. We are a nation of immigrants, including Ingraham.
But isn't that meme essentially a throwback of what Laura is saying now? Are you saying that Native Americans in the 1600's were "racist" because they didn't want a horde of foreigners invading their lands and "changing their demographics?" Even if that is the premise, I'm not sure that's necessarily racist as much as it is xenophobic. Was the revolting of French nationals against a Nazi German invasion and occupation premised on racial lines? Or do people in general don't like when their sovereignty is threatened, regardless of race? I'm pretty sure China's objections against a Mongolian invasion wasn't premised around the fact that Mongolians are Asian.
Don't get me wrong, Laura more than likely harbors some racist tendencies, but that of course is designed to exemplify said racist tendencies of conservatives. Of course, it could also be said that liberal notions about what constitutes racism is itself misguided. A kind of virtue signaling is becoming very popular where white liberals view self-effacing behavior against caucasians and an almost offensive version of extreme patronage for all things non-white is the only way one can not be "racist." Of course, the action itself is definitionally racist since it seeks to make automatic assumptions based on..... race....... and ascribes traits based on...... race........ If that's not ironic then I'm not sure what is.
The power in denouncing someone as a racist lies in the accusation... not the substantiation of facts.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 86 of 953 (854306)
06-06-2019 11:52 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by Faith
06-06-2019 6:16 PM


Re: Laura Ingraham is racist
quote:
I don't know if there is a racist component to Laura Ingraham's comments -- or Ann Coulter's either for that matter -- but I can easily enough read it as referring to culture
I don’t think that culture is really a demographic, nor is it something easily visible.
quote:
We want people who will appreciate and work to further the principles of this nation that made us the most prosperous on the earth and the beacon of freedom we've been known for
And that certainly isn’t either. What’s more it includes illegal immigrants and refugees that you don’t want.
quote:
...people who just come here willynilly hoping to benefit from our prosperity have NO ability to appreciate these things, and those who promote their coming here in great numbers have no such appreciation either, as has been made painfully clear in recent discussions at EvC,
And that’s an outright lie, of course. You have no way of knowing what people you have never met do or do not appreciate.

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 87 of 953 (854307)
06-07-2019 12:03 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by Hyroglyphx
06-06-2019 11:25 PM


quote:
But isn't that meme essentially a throwback of what Laura is saying now? Are you saying that Native Americans in the 1600's were "racist" because they didn't want a horde of foreigners invading their lands and "changing their demographics?"
Obviously it isn’t. It isn’t even talking about that.
quote:
Was the revolting of French nationals against a Nazi German invasion and occupation premised on racial lines?
Do you really think that legal immigration or simply having more kids than white folks is equivalent to a military invasion and occupation ? The very suggestion makes my point.
quote:
Don't get me wrong, Laura more than likely harbors some racist tendencies, but that of course is designed to exemplify said racist tendencies of conservatives.
It’s not meant to show a tendency, it’s intended to show the existence and acceptance of racism in current conservatism.
And the way the defences avoid the truth helps my cause.
quote:
The power in denouncing someone as a racist lies in the accusation... not the substantiation of facts.
However, I am producing evidence rather than issuing denunciations.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-06-2019 11:25 PM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-07-2019 1:44 PM PaulK has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 88 of 953 (854347)
06-07-2019 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Faith
06-06-2019 5:50 PM


Re: Marxism
Faith writes:
I'm more tuned into Cultural Marxism than economic Marxism....
It's often easier to tune into fiction than fact. We're well aware that you prefer fiction.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 89 of 953 (854355)
06-07-2019 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by PaulK
06-07-2019 12:03 AM


Obviously it isn’t. It isn’t even talking about that.
Sure it is. A bunch of people from a different cultural that speaks a different language came to North America to forever change the landscape of that native culture. How's that not the same?
Do you really think that legal immigration or simply having more kids than white folks is equivalent to a military invasion and occupation ? The very suggestion makes my point.
Okay, that's a fair objection, you're right. So lets look at the legal immigration of the Irish into America. The resentment obviously wasn't racially motivated but rather one of a culture shock. My point is that not wanting mass immigration does not de facto mean racism... it could be... and certainly can be in some instances. But not always. I'm cautioning not to paint with such broad strokes.
It’s not meant to show a tendency, it’s intended to show the existence and acceptance of racism in current conservatism
If you think that conservatism is automatically analogous to racism then you run the exact same risk of assuming qualities based on prejudice, which is precisely what makes racism so odious.
However, I am producing evidence rather than issuing denunciations.
Its not evidence, its an accusation based on a single example. One can always find an example, but it doesn't de facto speak to an entire group.
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Taq
Member
Posts: 9970
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 90 of 953 (854356)
06-07-2019 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Faith
06-06-2019 5:50 PM


Re: Marxism
Faith writes:
Marxism is basically the idea that the rich or upper classes oppress the poor or lower classes or working classes, and that capitalism serves this system of oppression, so that the lower classes have to be radicalized to **** the upper classes and overthrow them.
That's not happening in the US. At worst, people are calling for the regulation of big business, not overthrowing them.
So when Marxism takes hold, the richer classes, known in the olden days as "the bourgeoisie" or the people who buy and sell things, are done away with along with anyone else suspected of disliking the new policies, and the "workers" take over. In practice this always creates a new ruling class that oppresses and deprives ALL the people which is what is happening in Venezuela while the new rulers get rich and do nothing at all to help the oppressed population.
That's not what happened. Venezuela was super dependent on oil, so when oil prices went down so did their economy. This was exacerbated by corrupt politicians who profited off of government control of the Venezuelan oil industry. As a whole, the Venezuelan economy was capitalist. It was their dependence on oil and corruption that hurt them.
Imagine if the fracking oil in the Western US made up 50% of US GDP? We would have been doing great in the early 2000's when fracking was profitable due to high oil prices, but we would be destitute now.

This message is a reply to:
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