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Author Topic:   Brexit - Should they stay or should they go?
caffeine
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Posts: 1673
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 646 of 660 (854415)
06-08-2019 3:14 PM


Brexit Party begins its disintegration
I predicted a few pages back that, like UKIP before it, the Brexit Party would slowly disintegrate following its electoral success as its various members realised that, aside from the single issue that united them, they don't agree on much else; and that alliances have been made with reprehensible scum for short-term gain.

Took even less time than I thought. Their Merseyside campaign manager was fired this week once it became clear that he was a former active member of the fascist BNP. It should be pointed out that, in this case, 'became clear' means a journalist noticed. He ran as a candidate for the BNP in 2009, and his blog from those days is still online, so it's hardly a closely guarded secret.

In his own defence, the sacked member said that he'd quit the BNP in disgust once he had discovered, to his shock, "institutionalized racism within the whole of the party." Institutionalised racism in a party of fascists? Who'd have thunk it?

Edited by caffeine, : No reason given.


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Theodoric
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Posts: 6273
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 647 of 660 (854421)
06-08-2019 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 646 by caffeine
06-08-2019 3:14 PM


Re: Brexit Party begins its disintegration
"institutionalized racism within the whole of the party."

Kind of like the GOP here in the USA.
If anyone claims otherwise all you have to do is mention Thomas Hofeller.
https://www.nytimes.com/...olina-gerrymander-republican.html

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


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Diomedes
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Posts: 863
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
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Message 648 of 660 (854840)
06-13-2019 2:34 PM


Boris Johnson leads in first ballot for PM
quote:
Boris Johnson has secured the highest number of votes in the first MPs' ballot to select the Conservative Party leader and next prime minister.

Three contenders - Mark Harper, Andrea Leadsom and Esther McVey - were knocked out in the secret ballot held in the House of Commons.

Mr Johnson received 114 votes, while Jeremy Hunt was second with 43 and Michael Gove was third with 37.

Seven candidates progress to the next round of voting next week.


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48624579


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Tangle
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Message 649 of 660 (854842)
06-13-2019 2:42 PM


God 'elp us

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


  
Taq
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Message 650 of 660 (854864)
06-13-2019 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 648 by Diomedes
06-13-2019 2:34 PM


Re: Boris Johnson leads in first ballot for PM
YES!!!!

It's payback time for all those times the Brits laughed at us Yanks for electing Trump. Don't try to tell me I'm wrong, you were laughing . . .

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.


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PaulK
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Message 651 of 660 (854874)
06-13-2019 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 650 by Taq
06-13-2019 5:01 PM


Re: Boris Johnson leads in first ballot for PM
To be fair (to us) it’s more like the Primaries than a full election. In fact it’s less open than the Primaries at this stage. Only Tory MPs get to vote.
This message is a reply to:
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Diomedes
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Posts: 863
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 652 of 660 (854887)
06-13-2019 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 650 by Taq
06-13-2019 5:01 PM


Re: Boris Johnson leads in first ballot for PM
YES!!!!
It's payback time for all those times the Brits laughed at us Yanks for electing Trump. Don't try to tell me I'm wrong, you were laughing . . .

What's somewhat ironic (and disconcerting) is the resemblance:


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caffeine
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From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
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Message 653 of 660 (854939)
06-14-2019 6:57 AM
Reply to: Message 651 by PaulK
06-13-2019 5:31 PM


Re: Boris Johnson leads in first ballot for PM
To be fair (to us) it’s more like the Primaries than a full election. In fact it’s less open than the Primaries at this stage. Only Tory MPs get to vote

And this is why we know Boris is very unlikely to be PM. He has made himself abundantly clear in no uncertain terms that it is fundamentally wrong for a governing party to change is leader without calling a general election. Here's how he approached the issue when Labour did it.

[Quote]They voted for Anthony Charles Lynton Blair to serve as their leader. They were at no stage invited to vote on whether Gordon Brown should be PM… They voted for Tony, and yet they now get Gordon, and a transition about as democratically proper as the transition from Claudius to Nero. It is a scandal. Why are we all conniving in this stitch-up? This is nothing less than a palace coup… with North Korean servility, the Labour Party has handed power over to the brooding Scottish power-maniac.[\quote]

Obviously, then, he will request Parliament to dissolve itself immediately upon winning any vote, fine, upstanding man of principle that he is.


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jar
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Posts: 30986
From: Texas!!
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(1)
Message 654 of 660 (854940)
06-14-2019 7:31 AM


So it's not enough that you guys have an American in the Royal Family and a Muslim Mayor of London so now you want an American PM?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

  
PaulK
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Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 655 of 660 (854941)
06-14-2019 7:56 AM
Reply to: Message 653 by caffeine
06-14-2019 6:57 AM


Re: Boris Johnson leads in first ballot for PM
That belonged in the humour thread.

But I’m sure that Boris will be just as consistent as he is honest.

BBC


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Diomedes
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From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
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Message 656 of 660 (855297)
06-18-2019 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 648 by Diomedes
06-13-2019 2:34 PM


Down to five; Boris still in the lead
quote:
Dominic Raab has been knocked out of the Tory leadership race in the latest ballot of MPs, leaving five candidates in the battle to be the next PM.

Boris Johnson once again came top of the ballot, with 126 votes - 12 more than in the first round.

Jeremy Hunt, Michael Gove, Sajid Javid and Rory Stewart also got enough votes to make it into the next round.

Mr Raab was eliminated after coming last with 30 votes, three fewer than the minimum needed to progress.


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48680189

Race looks like this now:

Boris Johnson - 126 votes
Jeremy Hunt - 46
Michael Gove - 41
Rory Stewart - 37
Sajid Javid - 33

Mathematically, Johnson's lead will be very difficult to overtake. The other candidates put together have 157 votes. That is more than Johnson's 126 but it is likely many of those votes might end up in his pocket as others drop out.


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caffeine
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Posts: 1673
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 657 of 660 (855389)
06-19-2019 6:32 AM
Reply to: Message 656 by Diomedes
06-18-2019 2:50 PM


Re: Down to five; Boris still in the lead
Mathematically, Johnson's lead will be very difficult to overtake.

A lead in the Parliamentary votes isn't really relevant though. All that matters is finishing in the top two so as to progress to the final vote by their whole party membership.

Opinion polls suggest the majority of party members will vote for Boris, so all these elimination rounds are likely a bit irrelevant.

Other fun facts from recent polls of Tory party membership. 44% of them would be happy to have Farage as party leader; and a majority consider leaving the EU more important than the continued existence of the United Kingdom, the continued existence of the Cinservative Party, and the healthy functioning of the British economy. There was only oe hypothetical presented in the latest Yougov poll which a (small) majority of party members would be willing to sacrifice Brexit to prevent - Jeremy Corbyn as PM.

Edited by caffeine, : No reason given.

Edited by caffeine, : No reason given.


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Diomedes
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Posts: 863
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 658 of 660 (855397)
06-19-2019 8:59 AM
Reply to: Message 657 by caffeine
06-19-2019 6:32 AM


Re: Down to five; Boris still in the lead
A lead in the Parliamentary votes isn't really relevant though. All that matters is finishing in the top two so as to progress to the final vote by their whole party membership.

Opinion polls suggest the majority of party members will vote for Boris, so all these elimination rounds are likely a bit irrelevant.

It does seem somewhat of a done deal now. I think they are only going through the motions to give the impression of due diligence. But unless Boris somehow tanks his candidacy by doing or saying something stupid, I pretty much see him as being the next PM.

44% of them would be happy to have Farage as party leader

Yikes! And I thought we had problems in the USA.

a majority consider leaving the EU more important than the continued existence of the United Kingdom, the continued existence of the Conservative Party, and the healthy functioning of the British economy

That basically shows that dogma and zealotry have taken over. Which is quite disconcerting. But unfortunately, they have now made their Brexit bed so to speak. Brexit defines the Conservative party at this stage and I think they believe if they don't deliver, it will fracture the party and alienate their base.

Well, should be an interesting ride.


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caffeine
Member
Posts: 1673
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 659 of 660 (855400)
06-19-2019 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 658 by Diomedes
06-19-2019 8:59 AM


Re: Down to five; Boris still in the lead
quote:
I think they are only going through the motions to give the impression of due diligence.

Well, they do still have rules to follow. Even in the current mess I don't think we've quite reached the point where they'd just throw their own party rulebook to save time. What's interesting is how many people thought a challenge was worthwhile. I know there are many Tories who hate the idea of Boris, but perhaps it shows the current mess that they were incapable of coming up with an anti-Boris compromise.

quote:
That basically shows that dogma and zealotry have taken over. Which is quite disconcerting. But unfortunately, they have now made their Brexit bed so to speak. Brexit defines the Conservative party at this stage and I think they believe if they don't deliver, it will fracture the party and alienate their base.

I can see it fracturing the party anyway (to some extent it already has). Almost a third of Tory party members voted Remain, after all. It's interesting that you talk about Brexit defining the party, and I'm most amazed by the fact that a majority of members consider this more important than preserving the Union (the British one, not the European one). The formal name of the party is, after all, the Conservative and Unionist Party. The party was literally founded around the principle of preserving the Union. You'd think that should be the issue that defines them. Astoundingly, even a quarter of Scottish Conservatives said they would want Brexit to go ahead even if it meant Scotland leaving the UK (though obviously the majority of Scottish Conservatives disagreed).

Still, maybe the party will hang together after all around their one shared objective - opposing Jeremy Corbyn.


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PaulK
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Posts: 15047
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 660 of 660 (855419)
06-19-2019 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 659 by caffeine
06-19-2019 10:30 AM


Re: Down to four; Boris still in the lead
Rory Stewart actually managed to lose votes, and was eliminated. Disappointing, since he seemed the least awful of the bunch and the only one with any realistic idea of what to do about Brexit.
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