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Author | Topic: The Trump Presidency | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Percy Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Here are two brief videos of prosecutors (first video) and lawyers who have served in high office (second video) making the case for impeachment of Trump:
They're short and worth watching, helpful in crafting concise arguments for impeaching Trump. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Attorney General William Barr again lied about his use of the word "spying" in his recent CBS interview (Barr Interview with CBS).
As many recall, in his April 10th, 2019, congressional testimony before the Senate Appropriations Committee Barr said, "I think spying did occur, yes," on the Trump campaign. He later on numerous occasions defended his use of the word "spying." Today in the CBS interview he did so again:
quote: Barr is lying through his teeth. There is almost no one whose chest puffs out with pride when accused of spying and of being a spy. That "spying" is a pejorative term in most contexts, including this one, cannot be denied. When Barr said he believed spying on the Trump campaign did occur, he obviously did not mean surveillance occurred because no one doubts the Trump campaign was surveilled. Everyone knows it was. It's an established fact. We even have the (redacted) text of the Carter Page FISA warrant. There is no question that the FBI performed surveillance upon the Trump campaign. The question is whether the surveillance was properly authorized. So when Barr said he believed spying occurred he was stating his belief that the surveillance was unauthorized and illegitimate. His later defenses of his use of the term all ring hollow. When it comes to lying, Trump and Barr are like peas in a pod. Their lies are equally bold, the only difference being Barr's greater command of nuance and subtlety. --Percy Edited by Percy, : Typo.
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1533 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
"If we had confidence that the president clearly did not committed a crime, we would have said so." -- Robert Mueller
-------------------Lizard people translation---------------------- "No collusion, no obstruction, no crime." "You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs
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Percy Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Trump now has an Attorney General enabling his most terrifying impulses. Read all about it: In Terrifying Interview, William Barr Goes Full MAGA
”Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Mueller and Barr had differing interpretations of the OLC (DOJ's Office of Legal Counsel) opinion about whether a sitting president could be indicted. Mueller saw little difference between an indictment and stating an opinion on whether laws had been broken. Barr saw little problem with rendering such an opinion.
I have located two copies of that September 24, 1973, OLC opinion:
I found the first one easier on the eyes. The second one, a PDF of the original typewritten memo, does not appear to have been typed on a quality typewriter of the period, such as an IBM Selectric. The first part provides a great deal of legal background. I skipped the parts about case law but found the parts explaining their thinking fascinating, such as the conclusion that impeachment must precede any criminal preceding. The relevant section begins on page 30. This paragraph argues that the negative effects of criminal proceedings argue against them:
quote: And the next paragraph argues that it makes more sense for impeachment via the House and Senate to precede any criminal proceedings:
quote: The memo next describes the incongruities of a jury trial of a president, then concludes that impeachment before criminal proceedings makes much more sense:
quote: It can be difficult to identify the conclusion amongst all the back and forth arguments the memo considers, but here they make clear that they are "suggesting that an impeachment proceeding is the only appropriate way to deal with a President while in office":
quote: Anyone taking the time and trouble to read and understand the memo can easily see that Attorney General William Barr has stepped outside its guidance. Its opinion is that the DOJ should not hamstring a president by burdening him with criminal accusations. Mueller properly followed OLC guidelines in his investigation and report, and Barr did not in declaring the president innocent of any wrongdoing. It is not the DOJ's place to stand in judgment of the president. That's Congress' job. --Percy Edited by Percy, : Grammar.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member
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All this discussion about whether Mueller should have explicitly accused Trump of crimes is pretty much what the Republicans want. It distracts the public from a more important issue: that Barr deliberately lied to Congress and the American people in his initial summary of Mueller's report.
Added by edit: Not that I don't agree that this is an issue that can be discussed on its own merits, but let's also remember that regardless of how Mueller should have written his report, it's pretty clear what he did write, and Barr has no excuse for the misrepresentations - oh hell, the outright lies - he made about it. And that is the important point. Edited by Chiroptera, : No reason given. Edited by Chiroptera, : Got confused on the triple negative!If this was a witch hunt, it found a lot of witches. -- David Cole, writing about the Mueller investigation. |
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Your boy is coming here tomorrow to meet Queenie.
I really wish he wasn't. Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8563 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
Even if he is just visiting, she still has the Royal Prerogative to have her Royal Executioner stand by with a sharpened ax.
Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
I wish she would, he's already behaving like a total arse and he ain't even here yet.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8563 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.7 |
I don't suppose holding on to him for, oh let's say, 18 months would be something you people could do for your favorite ex-colony? In the tower? Incommunicado?
We'll give you back the tea.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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AZPaul3 writes:
I hear the Ecuadorian Embassy has a vacancy. I don't suppose holding on to him for, oh let's say, 18 months would be something you people could do for your favorite ex-colony? In the tower? Incommunicado?Izquierdo.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Percy writes: Mueller and Barr had differing interpretations of the OLC (DOJ's Office of Legal Counsel) opinion about whether a sitting president could be indicted. Mueller isn't a politician, and he wanted to play the role of neutral investigator, which he did quite well. We can argue about the OLC opinion, but I think Mueller did a great job of aligning himself to the spirit of the rules set out for the Special Counsel's office. He knows that any charges against Trump are inherently political and are outside of his office. Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5952 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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The bumper stickers are already out there for sale: Trump for Prison 2020
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Percy Member Posts: 22504 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
The intro to Connect the Dots to See Where Trump’s Taking Us, an opinion piece in today's New York Times, asks the right rhetorical question about Trump's misguided positions on issues related to climate change:
quote: --Percy
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vimesey Member (Idle past 101 days) Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined:
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Seriously,who does that? 1. Look at the real estate/construction contracts placed by the heavy pollution companies over the next few years.2. See who they're placed with. 3. See who finances who they're placed with. 4. Trace the connections as best you can, to determine the ultimate beneficiaries. That should give the question a pretty good answer.Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
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