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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 578 of 3207 (854629)
06-11-2019 3:21 AM
Reply to: Message 575 by Stile
06-10-2019 3:44 PM


New Topic Spinoff
I recently watched an intense debate between Ben Shapiro and William Lane Craig. The transcript, auto-generated on YouTube, is fascinating.
I plan on spinning off a new topic based on this transcript and the 50+ minute dialogue between two polished speakers.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 575 by Stile, posted 06-10-2019 3:44 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 580 by Stile, posted 06-11-2019 8:37 AM Phat has replied
 Message 583 by Tangle, posted 06-11-2019 5:30 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 582 of 3207 (854682)
06-11-2019 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 580 by Stile
06-11-2019 8:37 AM


Re: New Topic Spinoff
I have the raw transcript in Google Docs via a shareable link, but I need to go through the 72+pages and attribute which words to what speaker. I should have it done soon.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 580 by Stile, posted 06-11-2019 8:37 AM Stile has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 584 of 3207 (854733)
06-12-2019 7:44 AM
Reply to: Message 583 by Tangle
06-11-2019 5:30 PM


Re: New Topic Spinoff
Tangle writes:
I really dislike Craig because he calls himself logical and is a philosopher but as soon as he gets onto god his logic goes to pieces.
I watched the first ten minutes or so and found myself disagreeing with him but finding his answers fair and logical, then he got onto god and he talked utter shit.
I saw Sam Harris debate with him and he just shrugged in disbelief that someone with obvious training in logic would fall apart when trying to justify the existence of god. It was embarrassing to watch. His premises fail. Weird thing to watch happening to an academic.
I am attempting to edit the transcript over at my new topic, (by edit I mean to attribute the raw data to the proper speaker)and I hope to get it promoted soon. I would also be interested in finding the Sam Harris debate and discussing that one at my new topic as well. Tangle, can you find a link to the Sam Harris debate which you're referred to?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 583 by Tangle, posted 06-11-2019 5:30 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 585 by Tangle, posted 06-12-2019 8:24 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 586 of 3207 (854742)
06-12-2019 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 585 by Tangle
06-12-2019 8:24 AM


Re: New Topic Spinoff
Thats a really deep and inciteful article! Allow me to quote some of it:
quote:
Though Harris read his notes from a gray MacBook, it was only Craig who had slides. This proved significant. Though the title of the debate was “Is Good from God?”, it didn’t appear on the default Notre Dame slide. Craig went first, and he displayed his own more formal title overhead: “Is the Foundation of Morality Natural or Supernatural?” Then, as far as he was concerned, he set the terms of the debate. He laid out, in carefully-worded bullet points, both what he would argue that night and what he would not. He would argue that God’s existence is the sole sound foundation for an objective morality. He wouldn’t argue that God actually exists, or that you can’t behave morally without believing in God, or what particular moral values are. He also gave reasons why Harris’s book was wrong. It was an intentionally narrow agenda.
Nearly the entire time afterward, the two talked past each other. Each accused the other of misrepresentations and red herrings, then pushed on so as not to lose the offensive. “Allowing yourself to get led around the nose by a person like Craig is a losing strategy,” Harris says. In his twenty-minute opening speech, he laid out his concept of the “moral landscape” based on the “well-being of conscious creatures,” discernible by science. In his so-called “rebuttal” periods, Harris attacked biblical morality and compared it to the Taliban. He addressed most of the subjects Craig explicitly set out to avoid. There were also some off-color remarks about fried chicken on death row and trailer parks. But being off-color was the point. “I hate to break it to you here at Notre Dame,” said Harris, “but Christianity is a cult of human sacrifice.”
Then, at every opportunity, Craig listed the points he’d made, noted that Harris had failed to respond to them, and declared victory thus far. I heard a student tell his friends at the end, “Craig had already won by the first rebuttal!”
Each spoke at an entirely different pace. Craig charged through his speeches with hardly a chance for him to breathe or us to consider. Whether at the podium or not, he speaks in flawless paragraphs. The next day he told me about feeling pressure to put on a rigorous show for his fellow philosophers at Notre Dame, whose department has been the headquarters of Christian philosophy since the 1980s. Harris, however, spoke slowly, in catchy salvos alternating with silence, as if he wanted to ensure everything could sink in for the ordinary undergrad. At the end of one speech, for instance: Pause. “Please think about this.” Pause. Applause. He explained afterward, “This is just the way I speak.”

In my world view, there is a cultural war of sorts behind many of these debates. I cannot yet summarize what it is I see, but much of it involves moral relativism vs exclusive truth claims, accusations by either side accusing the other of attempting to frame the default assumption, and for me most tellingly...the overall issue of the source of inspiration for the books of the Bible as well as the motives and intentions of the original authors. Knowing this would in my mind lean the decisiveness of such a debate one way or another. I will admit bias, however. I feel that the "war" is not simply cultural but Spiritual and that it is waged much as a political campaign would be waged....namely which side has the best candidate?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 585 by Tangle, posted 06-12-2019 8:24 AM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 587 by ringo, posted 06-12-2019 12:21 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 588 of 3207 (854761)
06-12-2019 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 587 by ringo
06-12-2019 12:21 PM


Re: New Topic Spinoff
Are you suggesting that *all* apologists are merely hucksters slanging their product? I know that you claim the moral high ground through your trump card of evidence and that you also claim to know which side is right and which is wrong based on objective truth claims through the evidence or absence thereof, but I would question the premature conclusions arising from a scientific community who has never been anywhere other than this dust speck of a planet 93 million miles from the nearest star, 7 light years from the next nearest star, in a hundred billion star galaxy among a hundred billion others. Yet through the magic of the maths and physics, the conclusion can be reached that there is NO God.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 587 by ringo, posted 06-12-2019 12:21 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 589 by ringo, posted 06-12-2019 2:25 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 590 by AZPaul3, posted 06-12-2019 3:15 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 591 by Stile, posted 06-12-2019 3:29 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 595 of 3207 (854878)
06-13-2019 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 591 by Stile
06-12-2019 3:29 PM


Topic Summary According to Thugzy
ringo writes:
I don't pretend to get my information from communion with some spook.
Show evidence that I am pretending. There have been numerous times when decisions made after a sincere and honest prayer led to the appearance of a needed person being at the exact place that I was going.
One such instance happened years ago when my father passed away. We arrived at the hospital after the emergency ambulance was called. Mom was distraught and in need of comfort. At that time, I didn't even know the Lord, but we prayed while going down to the hospital as a family in crises. As we were walking into the hospital, Moms Pastor from her church walked right in front of us. He was seemingly there on unrelated business but was in the right spot at that exact moment. You will, of course, argue in favor of random coincidence. I could recite for you at least twenty other stories similar. My conclusion is that you guys believe what you want to think. You don't want God to exist...at least not my version. Your version has a God who serves the needs of humanity...whereas my version has a God who foreknows the destiny of humankind and Who allows for them to learn through trial and error yet who helps those who are His.
Argue all you want about starving children of other beliefs being ignored. Argue all you want about the many unanswered prayers that could be used as counter-examples to my claim. I charge you as being in willful denial of belief in God. You don't think you need Him. Not on His terms, at any rate.
ringo writes:
You haven't been anywhere else either, so why would your conclusions be more mature than mine?
Because I allowed myself to take a leap of faith into a place you wouldn't even want to go. Do you think this world is crazy now? It will get worse, and you and your kind will get even angrier at the "believers" for messing up your secular atheist paradise. That is until all hell breaks loose and you may find yourself needing help from a Deity. Many will curse the prospect until the day they die, and nothing can be done for them.
Thugzy writes:
Yet through the magic of the maths and physics, the conclusion can be reached that there is NO God.
ringo writes:
You have used the same method to conclude that there are no leprechauns. What"s the difference?
Obviously, to you there is no difference between Leprechauns and the God we preach.
Matt 12:38-41 writes:
NKJV--
Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from You."
39 But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Signs and wonders follow those whom believe. (and DO, arguably.) If you want evidence, I present to you the believers themselves. We are the evidence. We are the only evidence you will likely ever find.
Vines writes:
SIGN
In 1 Cor 1:22, "the Jews ask for signs," RV, indicates that the Apostles were met with the same demand from Jews as Christ had been: "signs were vouchsafed in plenty, signs of God's power and love, but these were not the signs which they sought... They wanted signs of an outward Messianic Kingdom, of temporal triumph, of real greatness for the chosen people... With such cravings the Gospel of a 'crucified Messiah' was to them a stumblingblock indeed" (Lightfoot); 1 Cor 14:22; (2) by demons, Rev 16:14; (3) by false teachers or prophets, indications of assumed authority, e. g., Matt 24:24; Mark 13:22; (4) by Satan through his special agents, 2 Thess 2:9; Rev 13:13,14; 19:20; (d) of tokens portending future events, e. g., Matt 24:3, where "the sign of the Son of Man" signifies, subjectively, that the Son of Man is Himself the "sign" of what He is about to do; Mark 13:4; Luke 21:7,11,25; Acts 2:19; Rev 12:1, RV; 12:3, RV; 15:1.
"Signs" confirmatory of what God had accomplished in the atoning sacrifice of Christ, His resurrection and ascension, and of the sending of the Holy Spirit, were given to the Jews for their recognition, as at Pentecost, and supernatural acts by apostolic ministry, as well as by the supernatural operations in the churches, such as the gift of tongues and prophesyings; there is no record of the continuance of these latter after the circumstances recorded in Acts 19:1-20.
Of course, you won't believe any of this either. You will grow increasingly angry at the believers. We will become full of joy. Even our own member Faith will become more loving and tolerant of those she now hates. (Either that or she won't make it!) This will all come to pass.
Look, I have a rational mind, but I don't doubt what I know.
Leprechauns have yet to become real to me.
AZPaul3 writes:
Is there any physical evidence to evidence your god? Is there any set of physical facts that can only require a god to be explained? Is there any reason other than personal emotion to suggest that such a thing can exist?
You are not allowed to hide your god unless it doesn’t exist. You are not allowed to hide the evidence of your god in some supernatural cave of ignorance.
So where is your god? Show me. Have it come around for a nice glass of Chardonnay.
Show me some handiwork in this universe that can only come from your god.
Give me any physical evidence of this extraordinary claim there is your god.
I’ll give you a break, Thug. I know it’s an unreasonable demand because we both know it cannot be done.
With the logic of the math and the physics, the conclusion *can* be reached that there is no god just like there is no pink polka dotted unicorn sitting on the edge of your couch. Ignore her. She’s harmless.
Do you know something? I like you guys here. We show each other mutual respect. We each think the other one wrong, but we get along nonetheless.
Thugpreacha writes:
Yet through the magic of the maths and physics, the conclusion can be reached that there is NO God.
Stile writes:
Actually, I reach such a conclusion using all the data that all religions have been able to muster up in the last few thousand years showing that God actually is where He's supposed to be... or doing the things He's supposed to do.
I am questioning just what it is that He is *supposed* to do...enlighten me.
Who better to search for God than those who claim He exists and is active in our lives?
Unfortunately, all those religions (including yours) haven't been able to find God in all this time.
He found us, though.
God is only found in the imagination, in feelings.
Exactly where He would be expected to be if He didn't exist yet people wanted Him to.
No argument there, except that He is not limited to our imagination.
Not a single person (mathematician or physics guru or pious religious member, or high religious leader) can show any place where God may make a difference.
That's because His presence protects both believers and unbelievers. There is no way to show the effects of the absence of God because He is not absent.
There's always another way to make the same difference.
I hope for the sake of those left after God removes His Spirit from the earth that they can find another way because it will be hell.
Computer chips exist - Can't get on the internet without computer chips.
Engines exist - Can't drive a car without an engine.
Peanut butter exists - Can't have a PB&J without peanut butter.
But with God? Everything can be done in another way.
Again, nobody can show another way until the experiment is done in the absence of the Holy Spirit.
Matt 12:31-32 writes:
"Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
NKJV
There will come a day when the church has finished its work. At that time, everyone alive will have made up their mind eternally and finally as to what they will choose to believe. At this time, all on earth---everyone alive will know that there is a supernatural spiritual war. It will be similar to what happened with Judas when Jesus called him out. Satan entered him. At this time, whenever it will be (and I believe that it will be), Faith may get her Rapture...and she better hope that she has made peace with her maker.
The church will be taken out. Many will rejoice who are left. For a brief season, perhaps. Until they see what is coming next, Stile, you will get a chance to prove that everything can be done another way at that time if you are still alive. But quite frankly, I believe that you are too loving to get left behind. God will show all of you more signs of the reality of this belief. Satan, meanwhile, will make many religious people continue to say dumb things and do stupid, vile things which discredit God. It is a war.
My only advice? Keep an open mind. Don't make your conclusions just yet. Continue being good to people and doing your best as if God never existed. I love you guys.
Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 591 by Stile, posted 06-12-2019 3:29 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 596 by Tangle, posted 06-13-2019 6:18 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 604 by Stile, posted 06-14-2019 9:58 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 607 by ringo, posted 06-14-2019 12:15 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 600 of 3207 (854936)
06-14-2019 5:24 AM
Reply to: Message 598 by Dredge
06-14-2019 3:46 AM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
Dredge, to Tangle writes:
would it make you happy to know that there exists a God who loves you and promises to grant those who love him in return eternal life in a heavenly paradise?
Or are you happier believing that there is no such God and that this life is all there is?
I will speak on Tangles behalf, which is itself an odd thing but...well, you know me. It obviously would make me happy to know that I know that God is real and loves me. That being said, I would perhaps not be so happy if God was jealous and wanted me to only love Him at the exclusion of all of the things I love in this world. Granted, many are worthless idols, and I would do well to let them go. For some, religion itself is a worthless idol. Take note, Dredge! Some folks are so invested in being able to say to everyone else that they were right and everyone else was wrong. But if that is the only motive...to be right...God is unimpressed and even angry with them.
And what if you were a man of logic and reason who had a family and who did care about them and was unwilling to throw his logic, reason, and reality away to follow some ethereal spook with empty cultural and dogmatic promises for fear that abandoning reason may just hurt his family? What then, o wise one?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 598 by Dredge, posted 06-14-2019 3:46 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 622 by Dredge, posted 06-17-2019 7:51 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 601 of 3207 (854937)
06-14-2019 5:28 AM
Reply to: Message 599 by Tangle
06-14-2019 3:54 AM


Dead Symbols & Living Hopes
Tangle writes:
I hope it gave him some comfort but I can tell you for sure that for the last 3 weeks of his life he was in almost permanent pain and only wanted it to be over. The most obvious comfort he got was from modern medicine - a cocktail of drugs that virtually comatosed him until he finally passed. Personally, I'd put more trust in that than the little cross.
Me too. A Symbol is nothing more than clutching a dead hope. The medicine at least killed the pain...if only for a few moments it allowed him clarity of thought. If he met a living hope rather than a dead symbol, the medicine served its purpose well.
Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 599 by Tangle, posted 06-14-2019 3:54 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 609 of 3207 (855065)
06-16-2019 4:12 AM
Reply to: Message 605 by Stile
06-14-2019 10:14 AM


Re: Of Spirits and the After-Life
Stile writes:
I am very spiritual - without God.
What part of "spiritual" do you think is only available from God?
God is Spirit. In order to even be able to defend spirituality without God, you must be able to name or at least define the other spirits.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 605 by Stile, posted 06-14-2019 10:14 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 615 by Stile, posted 06-17-2019 8:58 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 612 of 3207 (855131)
06-16-2019 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 611 by ringo
06-16-2019 2:16 PM


A circuitous relationship
In defense of Alex, all that the computer does is assemble letters into words. the actual thoughts and beliefs are human generated. I would never engage in a serious relationship with any computer at any time.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 611 by ringo, posted 06-16-2019 2:16 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 613 by ringo, posted 06-16-2019 3:46 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 614 by AZPaul3, posted 06-16-2019 3:53 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 655 of 3207 (855494)
06-20-2019 7:10 AM
Reply to: Message 642 by AZPaul3
06-20-2019 12:38 AM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
AZPaul3, addressing Faith writes:
None of your future prognostications will ever come true just like none of your past predictions. It's all bs.
Here is food for thought:
2 Peter 3:1-7 writes:
Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), 2 that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior, 3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation." 5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. NKJV
So perhaps while we are "waiting on God", God is waiting on us.
2 Peter 3:8-9 writes:
The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. NKJV

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 642 by AZPaul3, posted 06-20-2019 12:38 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 656 of 3207 (855496)
06-20-2019 7:18 AM
Reply to: Message 646 by Tangle
06-20-2019 1:57 AM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
Tangle to Dredge writes:
...You're going to have to trust me on this - I find life a lovely thing.
And I really hope that it continues being a lovely thing. Do you think I want the world to end? Paul may have said that to live is Christ and to die is gain, but I certainly am in no hurry to leave this place. Im just hitting my stride at Age 59!
We really should go fishing.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 646 by Tangle, posted 06-20-2019 1:57 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 669 by Tangle, posted 06-20-2019 4:58 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 657 of 3207 (855497)
06-20-2019 7:24 AM
Reply to: Message 654 by AZPaul3
06-20-2019 4:05 AM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
AZPaul3, replying to Faith writes:
When it comes to religion, reality cannot help but be blind. There is nothing there.
Check out Psalms 14.
Ps 14:1-3 writes:
The fool has said in his heart,
"There is no God."
They are corrupt,
They have done abominable works,
There is none who does good.
2 The LORD looks down from heaven upon the children of men,
To see if there are any who understand, who seek God.
3 They have all turned aside,
They have together become corrupt;
There is none who does good,
No, not one.
NKJV
Psalms 53 also addresses this.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 654 by AZPaul3, posted 06-20-2019 4:05 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 706 of 3207 (855740)
06-22-2019 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 699 by AZPaul3
06-22-2019 5:49 AM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
AZPaul3, addressing Faith writes:
You make excuses for a philosophy of hate.
I'd be interested to see the argument expressed in writing. Do you mean that this "hate" originate with Jesus Himself or do you mean that those who called themselves Christians perpetuated and justified hatred and manifest destiny through the use of Christian principles?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 699 by AZPaul3, posted 06-22-2019 5:49 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 710 by Faith, posted 06-22-2019 9:07 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 718 by Dredge, posted 06-22-2019 11:05 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 772 by ringo, posted 06-24-2019 12:53 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 732 of 3207 (855795)
06-23-2019 7:02 AM
Reply to: Message 499 by ringo
06-02-2019 2:37 PM


rringo writes:
Eating the fruit made Adam and Eve more like God. He said so Himself.
Uh huh. Lets how about I??? fOCUS.
Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 499 by ringo, posted 06-02-2019 2:37 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 744 by ringo, posted 06-23-2019 2:45 PM Phat has not replied

  
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