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Author Topic:   A test for claimed knowledge of how macroevolution occurs
Dredge
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Posts: 1615
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 88 of 785 (854814)
06-13-2019 1:35 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by edge
06-12-2019 9:33 AM


Dog breeders use inbreeding to induce unnatural mutations, but I fail to see what any of this this has to do breeding ancient rodents to eventually produce a whale.

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Dredge
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Posts: 1615
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 89 of 785 (854815)
06-13-2019 1:38 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Tanypteryx
06-12-2019 10:26 AM


Please tell me why you couldn't theoretically breed the alleged evolutionary ancestors of whales - rodent-like creatures - to eventually produce a whale.

This message is a reply to:
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Dredge
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Posts: 1615
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 90 of 785 (854816)
06-13-2019 1:54 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by Tanypteryx
06-13-2019 1:08 AM


Tanypteryx writes:

Dredge writes:


Yet humans remain humans … and dogs remain dogs, water rats remain water rats, E. coli remain E. coli ... funny that.


And humans remain mammals and humans remain vertebrates. What's your point?

Multiply the billions of mutations/generation you mentioned by the thousands of years that humans have been breeding animals and plants ... so we're talikng possibly trillions of mutations in one species ... yet breeeders ALWAYS eventually encounter genetic limits to how much the original organism can be changed.

Trillions of mutations that always lead to genetic dead-ends ... funny that.


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Dredge
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Posts: 1615
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 153 of 785 (854920)
06-14-2019 2:11 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by edge
06-12-2019 9:33 AM


Sorry, ignore this post

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


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Dredge
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Posts: 1615
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 154 of 785 (854921)
06-14-2019 2:17 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by edge
06-12-2019 9:33 AM


edge writes:

But there IS NO MUTATION in Dredge's scenario. Animal breeders do not induce mutations.


I understand your point now ... I was playing by my rules and not those of ToE.

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Dredge
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Posts: 1615
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 155 of 785 (854922)
06-14-2019 2:22 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Tanypteryx
06-12-2019 10:26 AM


Tanypteryx writes:

More bullshit. The evidence shows you are never going to get it.


I get it now.

Breeding is not a surrogate for evolution.

Okay, I understand that now.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


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Dredge
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Posts: 1615
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 156 of 785 (854923)
06-14-2019 2:24 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Taq
06-12-2019 11:20 AM


Re: When undertaking a vast enterprise don't start with half vast models
Thanks for that explanation. I take your point.

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Dredge
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Posts: 1615
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 157 of 785 (854924)
06-14-2019 2:28 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by Percy
06-12-2019 6:56 PM


Percy writes:

You keep repeating the same mistake. Breeding is not the artificial version of evolution. You'd have to combine breeding with genetic engineering to have an accurate analogy of the artificial to the natural. That is:

(Artificial selection + genetic engineering) == (natural selection + mutation)

Breeding by itself, which can't change the genetics, could never produce a whale from a now extinct ungulate


Okay, thanks; I get that now.

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Dredge
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Posts: 1615
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 158 of 785 (854925)
06-14-2019 2:34 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by Percy
06-12-2019 2:40 PM


Percy writes:

That is, breeding cannot create a new species because any new breeds would still be the same species.


Okay, but hypothetically speaking and according to ToE, given millions of years, wouldn't enough mutations occur that could eventually lead to the breeding of a new species?

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Dredge
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Posts: 1615
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 211 of 785 (855073)
06-16-2019 6:08 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by edge
06-13-2019 10:13 AM


edge writes:

Hmm, I thought it was 19.


I would love my IQ to get into double figures! Alas ...

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Dredge
Member
Posts: 1615
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 212 of 785 (855074)
06-16-2019 6:11 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by Percy
06-13-2019 12:22 PM


Percy writes:

Such problems are not due to mutation. They're due to the selection process. For example, some of the characteristics selected for in the German Shepherd were linked genetically to hip dysplasia. There is no hip dysplasia mutation. The alleles for hip dysplasia were already present in the wolf genome, but selection and inbreeding has made them more prevalent in the German Shepherd.


Okay, thanks; I need to read up on this stuff - my ignorance is showing. (In the last few days I've been reading stuff on the talkorigins.org site - there's some really fascinating info there - the "tail" in humans embryos and ERVs in humans, for example. It strikes me as a very professional organisation.)

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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