I Know That God Does Not Exist

Yeh we know you believe it but what's in you book is not evidence of anything other than someone we don't know wrote a book about some things that we do know (from real evidence) are not factually correct.We know this in the same way that you know that the book of Mormon is not evidence of real events or the Quran is not evidence of real events just because someone in a book claims to have witnessed something and someone else (who we don't know) who didn't witness it but heard it from someone else and wrote it down many years later.Can you see how this doesn't work?

Your personal belief is the revealed truth isn't it? You believe that your god has told you this.Why has god told you a truth that is different to what he tells GDR and Phat?

I really dislike Craig because he calls himself logical and is a philosopher but as soon as he gets onto god his logic goes to pieces.I watched the first ten minutes or so and found myself disagreeing with him but finding his answers fair and logical, then he got onto god and he talked utter shit.I saw Sam Harris debate with him and he just shrugged in disbelief that someone with an obvious training in logic would fall apart when trying to justify the existence of god. It was embarrassing to watch. His premises fail. Weird thing to watch happening to an accademic.

Probably this oneSam Harris | The God DebateCraig is a dishonest debater

quote:

---

While I believe I answered (or preempted) all of Craig’s substantive challenges, I’ve received a fair amount of criticism for not rebutting his remarks point for point. Generally speaking, my critics seem to have been duped by Craig’s opening statement, in which he presumed to narrow the topic of our debate (I later learned that he insisted upon speaking first and made many other demands. You can read an amusing, behind-the-scenes account here.) Those who expected me to follow the path Craig cut in his opening remarks don’t seem to understand the game he was playing. He knew that if he began, “Here are 5 (bogus) points that Sam Harris must answer if he has a shred of self-respect,” this would leave me with a choice between delivering my prepared remarks, which I believed to be crucial, or wasting my time putting out the small fires he had set. If I stuck to my argument, as I mostly did, he could return in the next round to say, “You will notice that Dr. Harris entirely failed to address points 2 and 5. It is no wonder, because they make a mockery of his entire philosophy.”

​

As I observed once during the debate, but should have probably mentioned again, Craig employs other high school debating tricks to mislead the audience: He falsely summarizes what his opponent has said; he falsely claims that certain points have been conceded; and, in our debate, he falsely charged me with having wandered from the agreed upon topic. The fact that such tricks often work is a real weakness of the debate format, especially one in which the participants are unable to address one another directly. Nevertheless, I believe I was right not to waste much time rebutting irrelevancies, correcting Craig’s distortions of my published work, or taking his words out of my mouth. Instead, I simply argued for a scientific conception of moral truth and against one based on the biblical God. This was, after all, the argument that the organizer’s at Notre Dame had invited me to make.

---

So you'll put aside permanent global human and animal suffering as evidence of the non-existence of god, but state as an clincher of a loving god that cares for us the coincidental presence of a priest in a hospital?Your god killed your father but gave you a priest to make it all better? You've lost the plot man. Stop those diet drugs, they're making you ill. Guilty as charged. Thank god. I just got lucky I guess.

A relative of mine finally died of pancreatic cancer this week. He was a believer and died clutching his little wooden cross. I hope it gave him some comfort but I can tell you for sure that for the last 3 weeks of his life he was in almost permanent pain and only wanted it to be over. The most obvious comfort he got was from modern medicine - a cocktail of drugs that virtually comatosed him until he finally passed. Personally I'd put more trust in that than the little cross. I really hope that fear and sadness is all that I feel - death beds are not as romantic as you think they are.

Sure, why wouldn't it? Ah, the catch. You know, the thing about real love is that it's unconditional. This god of yours that you're describing here, that demands our love whilst promising everlasting damnation if we don't is an evil narcissist. No thanks. Luckily, it's an obvious fabrication. Being happier or not about a fact is irrelevant. Life is simply all there is so I get on with it and normally feel grateful for it.

I've never met one that wouldn't like a nice one. But that's never the option. These kind of discussions are difficult with believers because they all believe different things about what god is and what he can do. All us normals can do is point out what it says in their particular book and/or what we've been told by their multi-various shamansOne of the things you tell us is that god demands we love and worship him.“You shall love the Lord your god with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.” Deuteronomy 6:5“I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore, choose life, that both you and your descendants may live.” Deuteronomy 30:19Love me or else, is not love. Well of course in the fiction you have created it needs a heaven and hell to function. But you forget that God created the evil in the first place.“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.”
Isaiah 45:7 And that's the reason you have to believe in your imaginary god - it makes you feel better. Doesn't work for me. It's really sad that you have no meaning in the only life you have. I'm pretty sure that your imaginary god that loves you would find that sad and wonder where he went wrong with you. Pure wishful thinking I'm afraid, but at least you won't be disappointed. You won't be anything. That feeling is a concern for the rest of us. People like Faith pray for armageddon - which is at least pointless - but others physically attempt to bring it on. Believers can be dangerous if they don't value their life here on earth.

I dunno Faith maybe it was something you said? You don't believe in the same things at all. I've no real idea what Phat believes, it seems to depend on his mental health state at any particular time - just at the moment he thinks he's an online, fire and brimstone evangelist. But you're a biblical literalist and Calvinist and fuck knows what Dredge is - he makes it up as he goes along, but he's apparently not a YEC like you. No it's the opposite of a promise of love, it's a superstitious, murderous blood sacrifice for no sane reason. I know what love is Faith and it isn't a demand to be loved or I'll send you to everlasting fire. Nor is it love to torture my relative to death with pancreatic cancer. If your god exists he hates us all to death

Right, just make up a God and then belief in him. I wonder why that has never occurred to me? Oh, I know, it would be a really childish, pointless and stupid thing to do. That's terribly sad, have you seen a doctor? Like I say, if you find the only life you'll ever have so meaningless, pointless and futile I feel sorry for you and can almost understand the need you have to believe in a made up paradise in an imaginary afterlife.But it's certainly not the 'atheist's perspective' to think like that, that's something else you've made up. You're going to have to trust me on this - I find life a lovely thing.

What he actually said was that life is something he has to endure and that he can't wait for his life to end. I'm pretty sure that any god that loves us would not have had that in mind when he made him. It's a shame that this dream comes at the expense of wasting the only life you'll ever get. It would at least be not totally wasted if you actually followed your god's actual teachings - gave up everything and helped your fellow man. But you never do. At best, that's a subjective fact. Well I agree. Your need for personal martyrdom is independent of the collapse of your belief system.Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

I've no idea what you think anymore Phat, you're unstable at the moment. All this me too preacher stuff. You should try it for yourself - it might take your mind off your current mind-fuck.

Right and 'in context' black is white. What crap. Read the words -
“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.”'Evil' is very specific, there is no other context The idea of punishing the descendants for the sins of their fathers is evil in itself. And the punishment of being condemned to everlasting flames if you're nor persuaded by - or haven't even heard of - a stone age myth is just plain idiotic.

The existence of a god as described by any of the religions that mankind has made up is a childish absurdity.Your idea of deliberately inventing a god to believe in is infantile.

And you believe that a loving god did that to you? For an imaginary sin of someone else? That's just weird. But I sympathise with your personal situation. At least you won't be disappointed. You won't be anything. But what a sad indictment of your god. Again, that's just plain stupid. If this is all there is, make the best of it. It is ordinarily possible to lead a fulfilling life without having to believe there's some fairytale following it.