Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 88 (8927 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 08-23-2019 8:42 PM
23 online now:
dwise1, Faith, jar, RAZD (4 members, 19 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: Jedothek
Post Volume:
Total: 860,347 Year: 15,383/19,786 Month: 2,106/3,058 Week: 480/404 Day: 84/63 Hour: 3/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Prev12
3
456Next
Author Topic:   Something Completely Different:
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12694
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 31 of 76 (854988)
06-14-2019 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Faith
06-14-2019 2:35 PM


He probably means he is immune to Holy Ghost Fire.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Faith, posted 06-14-2019 2:35 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3648
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 32 of 76 (854991)
06-14-2019 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Faith
06-14-2019 1:29 PM


A bit of trivia.

Hair opens with the song, Aquarius, which starts with the following words (apologies for any mistakes, but I remember it far better in German):

quote:
When the moon is in the Seventh House,
and Jupiter aligns with Mars

So how often do those two events happen? And more importantly, how often do they both happen at the same time?

Well, Jupiter's orbital period is about 12 years and Mars' is about 2 years. From that, I would estimate that they would be in conjunction about once every two years. That happened on 07 Jan 2018 (17°Scorpio55'). It will happen again between 20 Mar 2020 and 21 Mar 2020 at around 22°Capricorn45'. That's about 2yr 2mo 14dy or every 26.5 months. So every 26.5 months, a little over two years, Jupiter will align with Mars ("und Jupiter mit Mars zugeht").

So how often is the moon in the Seventh House? Well, since a horoscope is basically a clock, then every day all the planets will rotate about the earth (geocentrically speaking, which is after all our perspective relatively speaking). Since all twelve houses are fixed, that means that all the planets will pass through all twelve houses over the course of a single day. So that means that the moon will be in the Seventh House every single day.

So then this cosmically significant configuration will happen every couple years. The words sound much more impressive than the actual fact which is rather mundane.

 
I'm sure that you're aware of the explanation of the "Age of Aquarius", but lurkers probably aren't.

The earth spins like a top, which means that its axis wobbles a bit. It takes about 24,000 years for it to complete one full wobble. One effect that this has is that the Vernal Equinox is slowly moving westward along the ecliptic. This movement is called the precession of the equinoxes.

One of the things resulting from this precession is that the signs no longer align with the constellations. About 2000 years ago, the start of the sign of Ares (AKA the Vernal Equinox) lined up with the "start" of the constellation of Ares, but for the past 2000 years Ares has started in the constellation of Pisces. Now the Vernal Equinox is moving into the constellation of Aquarius.

So according to astrological theory (from I don't know how far back), the Astrological Age that we are in is determined by what constellation the Vernal Equinox is in and the religious symbolism of the time is determined thus. Therefore, from 4000 BCE to 2000 BCE we were in the Taurean Age (bulls as sacred symbol), from 2000 BCE to 0 the Arean Age (the ram, sheep), from 0 to about 2000 CE the Piscean Age (the fish), and now we are transitioning into the Aquarian Age (humanism). Of course, that all seems rather Western-centric.

Astrology debunkers seize upon this misalignment to disprove astrology, but their ignorance of their target is showing yet again. Tropical astrology is not based on the constellations themselves, but rather on the cardinal points: The Vernal Equinox (0° Ares), Summer Solstice (0° Cancer), Autumnal Equinox (0° Libra), and Winter Solstice (0° Capricorn).

 
BTW, I saw Hair during its first run at the Aquarius Theater in Los Angeles, then again a few years later with some friends in Vegas. And a third time some years later, I'm pretty sure, but I forget where. And, no, I wasn't under the influence of anything at any of those times. One of my German professors presented some of the songs in class and I bought the album for Haare in Germany which I have listened to more than the English version.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Faith, posted 06-14-2019 1:29 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Faith, posted 06-14-2019 7:59 PM dwise1 has responded

    
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3648
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.8


(1)
Message 33 of 76 (854993)
06-14-2019 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Thugpreacha
06-14-2019 10:13 AM


Re: Sense & Nonsense.
I'm guessing that the reason you are still intrigued by astrology is because there is math involved...thus the belief seems amusingly probable.

Not really. Pure math can be interesting at times, but I'm more basically an engineer who is more interested in practical applications.

As I already said, I have found that the goals of astrology could not be met, but at the same time I did gain a lot of practical knowledge and skills. Until a few centuries ago, astrology was astronomy (just as alchemy was chemistry). The development of star atlases and coordinate systems and observational methods and observational data was all part of astrology. The keeping of calendars was part of astrology. The techniques for predicting planetary positions and other astronomical events (eg, eclipses) were all part of astrology. For that matter, Johannes Kepler, famous for his three Laws of Planetary Motion, was a practicing astrologer.

So when you divorce all the woo from astrology, you end up with most of the basis for astronomy. The coordinate systems are identical, except that the introduction of the telescope led to replacing the measurement of celestial longitude in degrees (subdivided into the 12 signs) with time (hours of Right Ascension (RA) as in how long will it take for that object to line up with my telescope). The observation of the planets and of their periodicities. The establishment of the cardinal points (the equinoxes and solstices) which we base our calendar on. Virtually all practical astronomy comes from astrology, even though now we feel too embarrassed by it (as the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy observed about the ape-descended inhabitants of Earth, we are too embarrassed by our cousins and almost never invite them to dinner).

I seem to have fair mental visualization skills which I have often used to visualize problems in planetary motion. I have long had projects planned for making orbital predictions and translating between coordinate systems.

And besides, I keep seeing bungled attempts, especially by astronomers, to debunk astrology based on their misconceptions about it and other false assumption. I react to that the same way as I do to creationists' bungled attempts based on their abject ignorance of and misconceptions about evolution. If you are going to try to debunk something, then at least do it right and don't rely solely on misrepresentations.

The math involved in a Trinitarian doctrine simply doest add up...I mean...1+1+1=1 ??

Trinitarianism is extra-biblical (meaning that it ain't in the Bible). And it is not relevant.

Eric Idle and Robbie Coltrane did a comedy, Nuns on the Run (1990) (also included Rose Tyler's mum, Jackie). One religious education class scene had one of them trying to explain the Trinity by using the shamrock, then in a later scene he did a blessing, "In the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Shamrock." That was the first that I had ever heard of the shamrock being used in such a manner, but then much more recently I heard that St. Patrick had also used it in the same manner.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-14-2019 10:13 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32715
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 34 of 76 (854995)
06-14-2019 7:55 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by dwise1
06-14-2019 4:56 PM


I'm having a change of heart about this thread and have to give up as much of it as I can. I might have thought it OK to study anything as you say, but now I don't. Sin does have consequences and I've been feeling the consequences of the sin of this thread so it has to go.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by dwise1, posted 06-14-2019 4:56 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by ringo, posted 06-15-2019 11:37 AM Faith has responded
 Message 67 by caffeine, posted 06-17-2019 12:44 PM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32715
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 35 of 76 (854996)
06-14-2019 7:59 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by dwise1
06-14-2019 6:05 PM


Too much about astrological stuff.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by dwise1, posted 06-14-2019 6:05 PM dwise1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by dwise1, posted 06-25-2019 11:27 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32715
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 36 of 76 (854997)
06-14-2019 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by dwise1
06-14-2019 4:56 PM


I don't remember if you were in on the discussion about "The Star of Bethlehem" (Message 399) a few years ago, about a video in which this guy gets an astronomy program to see if he could identify what the star was that led the Magi to Bethlehem. He concluded it was Jupiter that started out in a superbright conjunction with Venus and then appeared to travel and stop right over Bethlehem -- as it went retrograde at that location -- On December 25th interestingly enough, in whatever year that was. When Jesus was a toddler.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by dwise1, posted 06-14-2019 4:56 PM dwise1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by PaulK, posted 06-15-2019 2:36 AM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 75 by dwise1, posted 06-26-2019 12:33 AM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32715
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 37 of 76 (854998)
06-14-2019 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Thugpreacha
06-14-2019 10:13 AM


Re: Sense & Non-sense.
Trinitarianism IS in the Bible and your formula is completely false. I've posted the proof many times here already. I'll look it up again later, but the gist is that it is proved from many separate verses that describe, first, God as One, then the Father as a separate Person who acts independently, and Jesus as a separate Person who acts independently, and the Holy Spirit as a separate Person who acts independently, and the Father as God, and Jesus as God, and the Holy Spirit as God. That's One God in Three Persons. It's all there but it's not just in one place.

Message 232: This post has a link to a page that lists all the scripture verses that prove the Trinity. I should have linked to that page directly but oh well, this will get you there.

Since this is off-topic it's all I want to say and I hope we don't go further with it.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-14-2019 10:13 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-16-2019 4:02 AM Faith has responded

    
PaulK
Member
Posts: 15328
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 38 of 76 (855008)
06-15-2019 2:36 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Faith
06-14-2019 8:21 PM


quote:

I don't remember if you were in on the discussion about "The Star of Bethlehem" (Message 399) a few years ago, about a video in which this guy gets an astronomy program to see if he could identify what the star was that led the Magi to Bethlehem

I was. His ideas didn’t fit with the Biblical story, and he had to make up his own astrological ideas to get it to fit.

quote:

When Jesus was a toddler.

Maybe - we don’t know when Jesus was born - but it was after Herod died, which also doesn’t fit with the Biblical story.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Faith, posted 06-14-2019 8:21 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-16-2019 4:07 AM PaulK has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 17168
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 39 of 76 (855028)
06-15-2019 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Faith
06-14-2019 7:55 PM


Faith writes:

... in practice those who object to religion or the occult and astrology in particular just believe it's all hokum and won't give it a second thought.


The people who wrote the Bible were quite vociferous in their opposition to the occult and astrology.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Faith, posted 06-14-2019 7:55 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Faith, posted 06-15-2019 3:54 PM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32715
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 40 of 76 (855031)
06-15-2019 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by ringo
06-15-2019 11:37 AM


Yes they were and now that it's having consequences in my own life I have to recognize that this wasn't just a fun thing as long as I kept it on that level, astrology IS forbidden so this thread has to go, at least my posts on it.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by ringo, posted 06-15-2019 11:37 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by ringo, posted 06-15-2019 9:53 PM Faith has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 17168
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 41 of 76 (855054)
06-15-2019 9:53 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Faith
06-15-2019 3:54 PM


Faith writes:

Yes they were, but I was talking bout the people here.


And I was just pointing out another example of your hypocrisy: dabbling in the occult while scarfing down shrimp and hating gays - when the Bible treats all three the same.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Faith, posted 06-15-2019 3:54 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Faith, posted 06-15-2019 10:00 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32715
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 42 of 76 (855055)
06-15-2019 10:00 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by ringo
06-15-2019 9:53 PM


I'm admitting to myself now that this thread IS "dabbling in the occult" so I'm trying to extricate myself from it. But as I've explained many times the New Testament made it clear that there is no problem for Christians in eating anything that was forbidden food to the Jews, and I don't hayte gays at all.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by ringo, posted 06-15-2019 9:53 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

    
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12694
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 43 of 76 (855061)
06-16-2019 4:02 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Faith
06-14-2019 8:30 PM


Re: Sense & Non-sense.
I wouldn't be surprised if you attempt to correct your own Pastor.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Faith, posted 06-14-2019 8:30 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Faith, posted 06-16-2019 4:11 AM Thugpreacha has responded
 Message 48 by jar, posted 06-16-2019 7:50 AM Thugpreacha has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12694
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 44 of 76 (855063)
06-16-2019 4:07 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by PaulK
06-15-2019 2:36 AM


"Secular Experts" =contradiction in terms.
PaulK writes:

we don’t know when Jesus was born - but it was after Herod died,...

Which one of the esteemed "experts" informed you of this? And how do we know he is right and the Bible is wrong? Im curious...

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by PaulK, posted 06-15-2019 2:36 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by PaulK, posted 06-16-2019 4:24 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32715
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 45 of 76 (855064)
06-16-2019 4:11 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by Thugpreacha
06-16-2019 4:02 AM


Re: Sense & Non-sense.
My pastor and all the pastors in every church I've spent any time in all teach the Trinity the same way that website does.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-16-2019 4:02 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-16-2019 7:21 AM Faith has responded

    
Prev12
3
456Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019