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PaulK
Member
Posts: 15319
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 46 of 76 (855067)
06-16-2019 4:24 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Thugpreacha
06-16-2019 4:07 AM


Re: "Secular Experts" =contradiction in terms.
quote:

Which one of the esteemed "experts" informed you of this? And how do we know he is right and the Bible is wrong?

I think you have misunderstood. I was saying that Larson’s conjunction was after Herod died. The Bible does not mention Larson’s conjunction.

But I will add that Luke tells us that Jesus was born after Herod died. Luke dates Jesus’ birth to the census of Quirinius which occurred after the Romans’ deposed Herod Archelaus, son of Herod the Great.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-16-2019 4:07 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

    
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12680
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 47 of 76 (855075)
06-16-2019 7:21 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Faith
06-16-2019 4:11 AM


Re: Sense & Non-sense.
I have no problem with the Trinity, but I think you are a bit arrogant and snippy with me in claiming superior Biblical Knowledge. I could care less how much research you have done---I too have read a lot of stuff, and have reached differing conclusions which are all tentative. You refuse to even consider the possibility that you are wrong, and I think that your condescending attitude towards fellow Christians who have received as much revelatory knowledge as you have might be a strike against you come judgment day. What good does it do to advertise our "product" when we look stupid and stubborn?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Faith, posted 06-16-2019 4:11 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by dwise1, posted 06-16-2019 12:03 PM Thugpreacha has responded
 Message 52 by Faith, posted 06-16-2019 1:13 PM Thugpreacha has responded
 Message 53 by ringo, posted 06-16-2019 2:09 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31178
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 48 of 76 (855076)
06-16-2019 7:50 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by Thugpreacha
06-16-2019 4:02 AM


Re: Sense & Non-sense.
Phat writes:

I wouldn't be surprised if you attempt to correct your own Pastor.

Why not if the pastor is wrong?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-16-2019 4:02 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 3642
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 49 of 76 (855087)
06-16-2019 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Thugpreacha
06-16-2019 7:21 AM


Re: Sense & Non-sense.
What good does it do to advertise our "product" when we look stoopid and stubborn?

I always thought that was your "product". BTW, misspelling was made necessary by some stoopid forum setting; maybe I should substitute German or Spanish words when that happens again.

But seriously, that is my primary message to creationists: it does not serve your cause, but rather is counter-productive and contrary to Christian doctrine, to depend on creationist lies and deceptions.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-16-2019 7:21 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
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Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12680
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 50 of 76 (855089)
06-16-2019 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by jar
06-16-2019 7:50 AM


Re: Sense & Non-sense.
Because non-believers cannot correct believers based only on consensual evidential data. Of course, I do not know this, but you do not absolutely know that the Pastor is wrong either. Feel free to go to Stephen Hawking's church, however.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by jar, posted 06-16-2019 7:50 AM jar has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by ringo, posted 06-16-2019 2:10 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12680
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 51 of 76 (855090)
06-16-2019 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by dwise1
06-16-2019 12:03 PM


The Believers Are Forever The Only Evidence
I can tentatively agree with you, Duane. The reason I like this forum is that I have developed basic trust in the wisdom, evidential logic, and overall internet personality characteristics of the members here. And I see that jar has returned as my foil and resident critic, always keeping me off balance and away from complacency regarding my beliefs.

That's just it, though. The whole paradigm and dynamic of Evolution vs Creationism is that one side is willing to throw away evidence in light of new evidence and has no need to hold to any final conclusion on a matter, while the other side---my side---does, in fact, have an emotional need to hold on to belief despite its irrationality.

Look, I will freely admit that your side has all of the basic facts that can be objectively proven. I continue to argue with everyone here because I continue to get subjective confirmation that my beliefs are valid (at a basic emotional level).

The data can show that prayer doesn't make a difference...but I have experienced repeated confirmation that it does. The data can show that Jesus Christ likely never existed or that if so, He was an ordinary man...but I meet Him every day through others. The evidence that we have is the believers themselves and that is really all of the evidence that we ever will have. Even though I am admittedly just like Faith, I get mad at her for being a bad advertisement for our brand---our Jesus--our purpose. And what's sad is that I am no better. In fact, it is the atheists and secular humanists at this forum that keep me here. I believe that there is more evidence forthcoming. It will come from the believers themselves.

Either signs and wonders will follow those who believe or, as Tangle says, religion will continue to fade away and have less and less social relevance as time goes on.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by dwise1, posted 06-16-2019 12:03 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32696
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 52 of 76 (855094)
06-16-2019 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Thugpreacha
06-16-2019 7:21 AM


Re: Sense & Non-sense.
I thought I was just being factual, not "snippy" but sorry you took it that way.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-16-2019 7:21 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-16-2019 3:27 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 17145
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 53 of 76 (855097)
06-16-2019 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Thugpreacha
06-16-2019 7:21 AM


Re: Sense & Non-sense.
Phat writes:

I could care less how much research you have done---I too have read a lot of stuff, and have reached differing conclusions which are all tentative.


Both of you have read a lot of extra-Biblical "stuff" - which is a polite word for it. Too bad neither of you pays any attention to the actual Bible.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-16-2019 7:21 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-16-2019 3:31 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17145
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 54 of 76 (855098)
06-16-2019 2:10 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Thugpreacha
06-16-2019 12:23 PM


Re: Sense & Non-sense.
Phat writes:

Because non-believers cannot correct believers based only on consensual evidential data.


of course they can.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-16-2019 12:23 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by AZPaul3, posted 06-16-2019 2:48 PM ringo has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4413
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 55 of 76 (855113)
06-16-2019 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by ringo
06-16-2019 2:10 PM


Re: Sense & Non-sense.
I might have an opinion on this thread except I can't decipher what "consensual evidential data" entails.

Evidential and data are kind of redundant aren't they. And consensual? What happened? After some discussion did the two of them consent to this liaison of redundancy?

What is consensual evidential data?

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by ringo, posted 06-16-2019 2:10 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by ringo, posted 06-16-2019 2:55 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17145
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 56 of 76 (855116)
06-16-2019 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by AZPaul3
06-16-2019 2:48 PM


Re: Sense & Non-sense.
AZPaul3 writes:

What is consensual evidential data?


I took it as a consensus about what the evidence is. It isn't evidence unless we all agree what it is.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by AZPaul3, posted 06-16-2019 2:48 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by AZPaul3, posted 06-16-2019 3:25 PM ringo has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4413
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 57 of 76 (855123)
06-16-2019 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by ringo
06-16-2019 2:55 PM


Re: Sense & Non-sense.
So Thug is saying we cannot correct a preacher based on facts we all know and agree to?

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by ringo, posted 06-16-2019 2:55 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by ringo, posted 06-16-2019 3:33 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply
 Message 61 by Thugpreacha, posted 06-16-2019 3:34 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12680
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 58 of 76 (855124)
06-16-2019 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Faith
06-16-2019 1:13 PM


Re: Sense & Non-sense.
It's ok. Maybe it is I who am snippy. I've been quite feisty lately. It's just that I feel a battle in the air...Nothing personal against you, Faith

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Faith, posted 06-16-2019 1:13 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12680
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 59 of 76 (855127)
06-16-2019 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by ringo
06-16-2019 2:09 PM


Re: Sense & Non-sense.
I pay attention and will take you on quote for quote. The problem is that you attribute the source as human authors rather than divine authorship. It is why we can never agree. Your side essentially settles on human wisdom as the final arbitrator. Our side settles on divine inspiration, though we cannot prove it to the standards that all people would and should agree on... yet. The jury is still out and it may be a hundred years before a verdict is reached.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by ringo, posted 06-16-2019 2:09 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by ringo, posted 06-16-2019 3:40 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded
 Message 64 by PaulK, posted 06-17-2019 12:22 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17145
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 60 of 76 (855128)
06-16-2019 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by AZPaul3
06-16-2019 3:25 PM


Re: Sense & Non-sense.
AZPaul3 writes:

So Thug is saying we cannot correct a preacher based on facts we all know and agree to?


That's how I took it - because believers have "higher knowledge" that is not constrained by mere facts.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by AZPaul3, posted 06-16-2019 3:25 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
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