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Author
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Topic: A test for claimed knowledge of how macroevolution occurs
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 334 of 785 (855294)
06-18-2019 1:56 PM
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Reply to: Message 331 by Taq
06-18-2019 11:13 AM
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Of course it needs evidence, but it is a coherent model . . . - No, it isn't. Your model doesn't explain the pattern of differences between the genomes of species where transitions outnumber transversions and differences at CpG sites has the greatest number of differences relative to available bases. I don't see a need to be able to explain that pattern of differences. It fits your model, not mine.
Your model also doesn't explain why we see more differences in introns than in exons when comparing genomes from many species. Same answer as above.
Your model also doesn't explain why we see a nested hierarchy. It has never made any sense to me why evolution should form such a coherent pattern as a nested hierarchy anyway, so I don't see why I have to account for that either. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 331 by Taq, posted 06-18-2019 11:13 AM | | Taq has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 339 by PaulK, posted 06-18-2019 5:10 PM | | Faith has not replied | | | Message 340 by Taq, posted 06-18-2019 5:22 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Same answer as above. None of it applies to my model though it may apply to evolution, though in the case of the nested hierarchy that doesn't even make much sense. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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So much love I always get from you, and the Cheers section too.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 336 by Tanypteryx, posted 06-18-2019 1:58 PM | | Tanypteryx has not replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 342 of 785 (855328)
06-18-2019 5:48 PM
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Reply to: Message 341 by Taq
06-18-2019 5:24 PM
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It's meaningless in my model. There are all kinds of facts that can be ignored in contexts where they are irrelevant. I guess it means something in your model, but not in mine.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 341 by Taq, posted 06-18-2019 5:24 PM | | Taq has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 343 by Taq, posted 06-18-2019 5:52 PM | | Faith has replied | | | Message 351 by PaulK, posted 06-19-2019 12:35 AM | | Faith has not replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 344 of 785 (855335)
06-18-2019 5:54 PM
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Reply to: Message 343 by Taq
06-18-2019 5:52 PM
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That's silly. There are lots of observed facts that have no relevance whatever to a particular context.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 343 by Taq, posted 06-18-2019 5:52 PM | | Taq has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 345 by Taq, posted 06-18-2019 5:56 PM | | Faith has replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 346 of 785 (855339)
06-18-2019 5:58 PM
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Reply to: Message 343 by Taq
06-18-2019 5:52 PM
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Can you explain why the genetic differences between species is irrelevant in your model? Don't the genetic differences between species explain the physical differences between species within your model? Differences between two unrelated species? You want to know why they are irrelevant? Isn't it obvious? To you they are related, that's why they aren't meaningless to you. The physical differences between species in my model might have an incidental interest, but it's your model that says they're genetically related, not mine.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 343 by Taq, posted 06-18-2019 5:52 PM | | Taq has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 348 by Taq, posted 06-18-2019 6:07 PM | | Faith has replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 347 of 785 (855341)
06-18-2019 6:01 PM
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Reply to: Message 345 by Taq
06-18-2019 5:56 PM
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Why don't DNA sequences have any relevance in your model?
Are you saying that your model can't explain anything about genetics? I said quite a bit about genetics in my post about the model. Did you miss it?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 345 by Taq, posted 06-18-2019 5:56 PM | | Taq has not replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 350 of 785 (855349)
06-18-2019 6:31 PM
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Reply to: Message 348 by Taq
06-18-2019 6:07 PM
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In your model, what causes a chimp to give birth to a chimp and not a human? It's got a chimp genome. Period.
Is it because of the differences between the chimp and human genomes and the process of inheritance? How do you explain this phenomenon? \ It's got a chimp genome. Period.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 348 by Taq, posted 06-18-2019 6:07 PM | | Taq has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 352 by Taq, posted 06-19-2019 10:44 AM | | Faith has replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 354 of 785 (855437)
06-19-2019 7:17 PM
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Reply to: Message 352 by Taq
06-19-2019 10:44 AM
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In the creation model the question of the differences between chimp and human is utterly meaningless. The answer is the one I gave: the chimp gives birth to a chimp because it has a chimp genome. Human genetics has nothing to do with it. A chimp is a chimp, a human is a human. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 352 by Taq, posted 06-19-2019 10:44 AM | | Taq has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 356 by Taq, posted 06-20-2019 12:12 PM | | Faith has replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 355 of 785 (855438)
06-19-2019 7:18 PM
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Reply to: Message 353 by Taq
06-19-2019 11:32 AM
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Re: How does the creationist model explain this?
Similar design. Nothing else to say about it.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 353 by Taq, posted 06-19-2019 11:32 AM | | Taq has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 357 by Taq, posted 06-20-2019 12:12 PM | | Faith has replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 358 of 785 (855527)
06-20-2019 12:16 PM
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Reply to: Message 357 by Taq
06-20-2019 12:12 PM
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Re: How does the creationist model explain this?
Faith writes: Similar design. Did God start with a common design and make changes to it? No, each design is unique to the creature. Scripture puts human beings in a completely separate category from animals in any case.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 357 by Taq, posted 06-20-2019 12:12 PM | | Taq has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 360 by Taq, posted 06-20-2019 12:31 PM | | Faith has replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 359 of 785 (855530)
06-20-2019 12:22 PM
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Reply to: Message 356 by Taq
06-20-2019 12:12 PM
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In the creation model the question of the differences between chimp and human is utterly meaningless. Then the creation model can't model biology because genetic differences are a biological fact. Um, the creation model is all about genetic differences. Chimp bodies and human bodies are identifiable by their genetic differences as well as by morphology. I keep trying to figure out your thinking but all I know is that you are so tightly bound up in the ToE you can't grasp what I'm saying no matter how I put it. I can try to say it again: The creation model certainly does model biology because it's all about genetic differences between the creatures.
If you can't explain what we see in genetics, then your model doesn't work. But creationism DOES explain what you see in genetics. I'm astonished at your not seeing it.
More to the point, the evolutionary model can explain all of this. So can the separate creation of each creature explain it. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 356 by Taq, posted 06-20-2019 12:12 PM | | Taq has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 362 by Taq, posted 06-20-2019 12:34 PM | | Faith has replied | | | Message 363 by ringo, posted 06-20-2019 12:34 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 361 of 785 (855535)
06-20-2019 12:34 PM
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Reply to: Message 360 by Taq
06-20-2019 12:31 PM
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Re: How does the creationist model explain this?
Then why is 98% of the chimp genome identical to the human genome? Similar design. AS I SAID. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 360 by Taq, posted 06-20-2019 12:31 PM | | Taq has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 364 by Taq, posted 06-20-2019 12:35 PM | | Faith has replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 365 of 785 (855539)
06-20-2019 12:38 PM
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Reply to: Message 364 by Taq
06-20-2019 12:35 PM
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Re: How does the creationist model explain this?
Unique designs can be similar. Why not?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 364 by Taq, posted 06-20-2019 12:35 PM | | Taq has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 366 by Taq, posted 06-20-2019 12:40 PM | | Faith has replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 367 of 785 (855541)
06-20-2019 12:40 PM
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Reply to: Message 362 by Taq
06-20-2019 12:34 PM
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Then what does the creation model predict for the patterns in those diffeences, or does it make any prediction at all? For example: 1. What should the pattern of differences be for transitions, transversions, and CpG's? 2. What should the pattern of differences be for a comparison of introns and exons? 3. What should the pattern of differences be between different groups of species? Can the creation model make any predictions with respect to those differences? There is no reason that I know of why the creation model should try to explain any of that. It's all an artifact of the ToE.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 362 by Taq, posted 06-20-2019 12:34 PM | | Taq has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 370 by Taq, posted 06-20-2019 1:01 PM | | Faith has replied |
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