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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9486
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


(2)
Message 646 of 3207 (855472)
06-20-2019 1:57 AM
Reply to: Message 631 by Dredge
06-19-2019 9:38 PM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
Dredge writes:
Never the option? Of course it's an option - you simply believe in a "nice" God of your own making and imagination. Organised religion doesn't have a monopoly on theism, you know.
Right, just make up a God and then belief in him. I wonder why that has never occurred to me? Oh, I know, it would be a really childish, pointless and stupid thing to do.
This life does have meaning for me - but only in the sense that I must endure it to get to the eternity of heaven.
That's terribly sad, have you seen a doctor?
On the other hand, the atheist perspective means life has no purpose or meaning - you get born, spend a few years indulging in meaningless activities, then you die and and become eternal dust. A pointless, futile existence that amounts to nothing.
Like I say, if you find the only life you'll ever have so meaningless, pointless and futile I feel sorry for you and can almost understand the need you have to believe in a made up paradise in an imaginary afterlife.
But it's certainly not the 'atheist's perspective' to think like that, that's something else you've made up. You're going to have to trust me on this - I find life a lovely thing.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 631 by Dredge, posted 06-19-2019 9:38 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 648 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 2:10 AM Tangle has replied
 Message 656 by Phat, posted 06-20-2019 7:18 AM Tangle has replied
 Message 675 by Dredge, posted 06-20-2019 7:42 PM Tangle has replied
 Message 676 by Dredge, posted 06-20-2019 7:45 PM Tangle has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 647 of 3207 (855473)
06-20-2019 1:57 AM
Reply to: Message 645 by AZPaul3
06-20-2019 1:32 AM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
Would you please stop confusing real Christianity with Catholicism's murderous Inquisition?
Also why do you attack religion and forget the tally of murders of all the communist and phascist regimes of the last century, which even exceeded Catholicism's by hundreds of millions.
You guys really know absolutely zip about true history.
Yes I know you think it's not real but you're wrong.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 645 by AZPaul3, posted 06-20-2019 1:32 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 650 by AZPaul3, posted 06-20-2019 3:24 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 648 of 3207 (855474)
06-20-2019 2:10 AM
Reply to: Message 646 by Tangle
06-20-2019 1:57 AM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
When someone, such as dredge, says that atheism makes for a meaningless llfe style he's not saying people FEEL it to be meaningless, which they may or may not. He's saying simply and factually that it actually HAS no meaning, even if we personally can find meaning in it or create meaning to suit ourselves. But when we know the God of the Bible and His amazing redemptive plans for the human race, THEN we have meanings of which unbelievers can't even dream. Try understanding that it's a simple observation, an objective fact. (Just as my observation of how the world is going against Christianity is a simple objective fact and has nothing to do with some personal need for martyrdom. You muddied up that one too. When I'm emotional I'm emotional, when I'm being objective I'm being objective. If you want to have a discussion stay with the facts and stop making up stuff about your opponents.)
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 646 by Tangle, posted 06-20-2019 1:57 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 649 by Tangle, posted 06-20-2019 2:56 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 677 by Dredge, posted 06-20-2019 7:56 PM Faith has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9486
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


(1)
Message 649 of 3207 (855479)
06-20-2019 2:56 AM
Reply to: Message 648 by Faith
06-20-2019 2:10 AM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
Faith writes:
He's saying simply and factually that it actually HAS no meaning, even if we personally can find meaning in it or create meaning to suit ourselves.
What he actually said was that life is something he has to endure and that he can't wait for his life to end. I'm pretty sure that any god that loves us would not have had that in mind when he made him.
But when we know the God of the Bible and His amazing redemptive plans for the human race, THEN we have meanings of which unbelievers can't even dream.
It's a shame that this dream comes at the expense of wasting the only life you'll ever get. It would at least be not totally wasted if you actually followed your god's actual teachings - gave up everything and helped your fellow man. But you never do.
Try understanding that it's a simple observation, an objective fact.
At best, that's a subjective fact.
(Just as my observation of how the world is going against Christianity is a simple objective fact and has nothing to do with some personal need for martyrdom.
Well I agree. Your need for personal martyrdom is independent of the collapse of your belief system.
Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 648 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 2:10 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 678 by Dredge, posted 06-20-2019 8:05 PM Tangle has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8493
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 650 of 3207 (855482)
06-20-2019 3:24 AM
Reply to: Message 647 by Faith
06-20-2019 1:57 AM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
Oh please. Don't bother me with this "that's not *my* religion" stuff. It's religion. You know you all look alike.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 647 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 1:57 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 651 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 3:29 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 651 of 3207 (855484)
06-20-2019 3:29 AM
Reply to: Message 650 by AZPaul3
06-20-2019 3:24 AM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
Oh please, cut out the ridiculous snark. It's false, and you know nothing about history. You enjoy smearing all religion and don't want to have to deal with distinctions, I get it, but I'm going to keep bringing up the distinctions because they matter.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 650 by AZPaul3, posted 06-20-2019 3:24 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 652 by AZPaul3, posted 06-20-2019 3:50 AM Faith has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8493
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 652 of 3207 (855487)
06-20-2019 3:50 AM
Reply to: Message 651 by Faith
06-20-2019 3:29 AM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
I'm going to keep bringing up the distinctions because they matter.
Not in the least.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 651 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 3:29 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 653 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 3:54 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1434 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 653 of 3207 (855488)
06-20-2019 3:54 AM
Reply to: Message 652 by AZPaul3
06-20-2019 3:50 AM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
Boy is that a case of willful blindness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 652 by AZPaul3, posted 06-20-2019 3:50 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 654 by AZPaul3, posted 06-20-2019 4:05 AM Faith has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8493
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 654 of 3207 (855490)
06-20-2019 4:05 AM
Reply to: Message 653 by Faith
06-20-2019 3:54 AM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
When it comes to religion, reality cannot help but be blind. There is nothing there.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 653 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 3:54 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 657 by Phat, posted 06-20-2019 7:24 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 655 of 3207 (855494)
06-20-2019 7:10 AM
Reply to: Message 642 by AZPaul3
06-20-2019 12:38 AM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
AZPaul3, addressing Faith writes:
None of your future prognostications will ever come true just like none of your past predictions. It's all bs.
Here is food for thought:
2 Peter 3:1-7 writes:
Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), 2 that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior, 3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation." 5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. NKJV
So perhaps while we are "waiting on God", God is waiting on us.
2 Peter 3:8-9 writes:
The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. NKJV

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 642 by AZPaul3, posted 06-20-2019 12:38 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 662 by ringo, posted 06-20-2019 12:15 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 656 of 3207 (855496)
06-20-2019 7:18 AM
Reply to: Message 646 by Tangle
06-20-2019 1:57 AM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
Tangle to Dredge writes:
...You're going to have to trust me on this - I find life a lovely thing.
And I really hope that it continues being a lovely thing. Do you think I want the world to end? Paul may have said that to live is Christ and to die is gain, but I certainly am in no hurry to leave this place. Im just hitting my stride at Age 59!
We really should go fishing.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 646 by Tangle, posted 06-20-2019 1:57 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 669 by Tangle, posted 06-20-2019 4:58 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 657 of 3207 (855497)
06-20-2019 7:24 AM
Reply to: Message 654 by AZPaul3
06-20-2019 4:05 AM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
AZPaul3, replying to Faith writes:
When it comes to religion, reality cannot help but be blind. There is nothing there.
Check out Psalms 14.
Ps 14:1-3 writes:
The fool has said in his heart,
"There is no God."
They are corrupt,
They have done abominable works,
There is none who does good.
2 The LORD looks down from heaven upon the children of men,
To see if there are any who understand, who seek God.
3 They have all turned aside,
They have together become corrupt;
There is none who does good,
No, not one.
NKJV
Psalms 53 also addresses this.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 654 by AZPaul3, posted 06-20-2019 4:05 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 658 of 3207 (855518)
06-20-2019 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 631 by Dredge
06-19-2019 9:38 PM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
Dredge writes:
On the other hand, the atheist perspective means life has no purpose or meaning....
Is it better to have "meaning" forced on you by an alien overlord? (How to Cook Forty Humans)

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 631 by Dredge, posted 06-19-2019 9:38 PM Dredge has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 659 of 3207 (855520)
06-20-2019 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 633 by Dredge
06-19-2019 9:57 PM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
Dredge writes:
"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.” (1Corinthians 1:18-19)
quote:
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
It's about what you do, not what you believe or what you profess.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 633 by Dredge, posted 06-19-2019 9:57 PM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 661 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 12:11 PM ringo has replied
 Message 679 by Dredge, posted 06-20-2019 8:13 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 402 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 660 of 3207 (855522)
06-20-2019 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 641 by Faith
06-20-2019 12:38 AM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
Faith writes:
Biblical religion is a religion of love....
SHOW US THE LOVE, YOU **** *****!!!

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 641 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 12:38 AM Faith has not replied

  
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