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Author Topic:   Who Made God?
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9140
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 511 of 868 (855656)
06-21-2019 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 509 by Phat
06-21-2019 3:25 AM


So you got nothing. Everything you typed means nothing. Hard to believe in something that cannot be described concretely and seemingly everyone has their own opinion.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 509 by Phat, posted 06-21-2019 3:25 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 513 by Phat, posted 06-21-2019 10:21 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 512 of 868 (855658)
06-21-2019 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 397 by dwise1
03-10-2019 4:47 PM


Re: The never answered question will be asked again.
I agree. God expects us to grow. We cant forever be an ignorant bunch of backwoods Bible Thumpers.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 397 by dwise1, posted 03-10-2019 4:47 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 513 of 868 (855659)
06-21-2019 10:21 AM
Reply to: Message 511 by Theodoric
06-21-2019 9:51 AM


Synopsis For Theodoric
Theodoric, addressing Faith writes:
I reject your concept of a god totally and completely. If your god existed, I would tell him to fuck himself for all of the misery he has caused.
And God would likely understand your emotional reaction, as well as your refusal to believe.
Let me read the link you gave her to see if I get a different take on it.
Theodoric writes:
I think a lot of us atheists have similar stories of our experiences with theists and particularly fundies. We see it here at EVC all the time. Phat does not see it, but he is no different than all the other fundies.
You seem to insist that I express myself in my own words, which is what I usually do here, but you then usually get angry and accuse me of being just like the rest of them. You are quick to judge. I recall that you found some story about the human foible and dishonesty ofRavi Zacharias, but I noted that you seemed to relish finding one major fault (if it was even true) about him and then judging him accordingly.
Tangle, replying to me writes:
You believe in magic? FFS Phat...no way, surely?
Theodoric, following up on Tangles comment writes:
He has to if he believes in a god.
Let's define magic.
Google Dictionary writes:
noun Magic--
the power of apparently influencing the course of events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.
And Note that I can't influence what God is going to do, nor should I even want to. He can handle His job quite adequately.
...
Mysterious tricks, such as making things disappear and appear again, performed as entertainment.
illusion prestidigitation deception trickery juggling jiggery-pokery
a quality that makes something seem removed from everyday life, especially in a way that gives delight.
That last definition fits my feelings regarding belief in general. I could rightly be accused of not only having confirmation bias in regards to every prayer I have had answered and every amazing event that I have witnessed but in a way, it's almost like a verification bias. The evidence which I will accept is not evidence that can be objectively replicated on demand for the Randi committee of paranormal claims. Theodoric seems to me to be the puny human ant on the pale blue dot, shaking his fist at the sky. Granted he loves and embraces evidence...verified only through social consensus and agreement. But as to the possibility that a supernatural Being could exist? Fuck Him! (Theodoric would say)
Something that has a delightfully unusual quality.
Sorcery witchcraft wizardry necromancy enchantment spell working incantation the supernatural occultism the occult black magic the black arts devilry divination malediction voodoo hoodoo used in magic or working by magic; having or having supernatural powers.
Very effective in producing results, especially desired ones.
Wonderful; exciting.
Fascinating, captivating tremendous phenomenal sensational heavenly gorgeous dreamy grand fabulous fab fabby fantabulous supercalifragilisticexpialidocious awesome, mind-blowing divine goodly
move, change or create by or as if by magic.
ringo writes:
There could be a God who was not made up by humans and who has no desire whatsoever to communicate with us. That possibility and the possibility of no God at all are more evident than your gregarious God.
Sez you. Obviously it is more evident to you...despite a lack of evidence in God, to begin with, you seem to prefer that an uncaring God would be more likely than the God I describe and market.
Theodoric writes:
So You got nothing. Everything you typed means nothing. Hard to believe in something that cannot be described concretely and seemingly everyone has their own opinion.
As well as their own preconceived bias! Just know that He won't smite you when you tell Him to fuck off. He will have you on your knees, however...willingly or unwillingly. Comments?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 511 by Theodoric, posted 06-21-2019 9:51 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 514 of 868 (855660)
06-21-2019 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 510 by Pressie
06-21-2019 9:30 AM


Do you think that *we* are here for no purpose? Just answer the question.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 510 by Pressie, posted 06-21-2019 9:30 AM Pressie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 516 by ringo, posted 06-21-2019 12:27 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 517 by jar, posted 06-21-2019 5:45 PM Phat has replied
 Message 547 by Pressie, posted 06-24-2019 9:16 AM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 432 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 515 of 868 (855672)
06-21-2019 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 508 by Phat
06-21-2019 3:13 AM


Re: The Evidence Is The Believers Themselves
Phat writes:
Our secular humanist friends here at EvC collectively feel more comfortable with scientific and supportable theories vs. what they would consider empty beliefs. But then they have not yet met Jesus.
I have met Jesus - exactly the same way as you have. I have also met Long John Silver and Tom Joad and Holden Caulfield.
Phat writes:
To me, the next question is this: Can something exist that is not evident?
The question you should be asking is, "If something is not evident, how can you know whether it exists or not?"

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 508 by Phat, posted 06-21-2019 3:13 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 525 by Phat, posted 06-22-2019 12:53 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 432 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 516 of 868 (855674)
06-21-2019 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 514 by Phat
06-21-2019 10:23 AM


Phat writes:
Do you think that *we* are here for no purpose?
How to Cook Forty Humans.
I think I prefer my own made-up purpose.

All that are in Hell, choose it. -- CS Lewis
That's just egregiously stupid. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 514 by Phat, posted 06-21-2019 10:23 AM Phat has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 414 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 517 of 868 (855689)
06-21-2019 5:45 PM
Reply to: Message 514 by Phat
06-21-2019 10:23 AM


Phat writes:
Do you think that *we* are here for no purpose? Just answer the question.
The answer will vary with every single person ever born. And yet it will also remain the same for every single person ever born.
We are here for what ever purpose the individual creates.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 514 by Phat, posted 06-21-2019 10:23 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 526 by Phat, posted 06-22-2019 12:55 PM jar has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8527
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 518 of 868 (855699)
06-22-2019 6:20 AM
Reply to: Message 504 by Faith
06-20-2019 9:11 PM


Re: The Evidence Is The Believers Themselves
dup
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 504 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 9:11 PM Faith has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8527
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 519 of 868 (855700)
06-22-2019 6:23 AM
Reply to: Message 504 by Faith
06-20-2019 9:11 PM


Re: The Evidence Is The Believers Themselves
That is of course a slanderous lye ...
Oh, not just a lye ... a lie, but a slanderous one at that.
As if the world doesn't already know your creed has been not just wishing death but causing death wherever it goes since its inception.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 504 by Faith, posted 06-20-2019 9:11 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 520 by Faith, posted 06-22-2019 7:00 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1464 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 520 of 868 (855701)
06-22-2019 7:00 AM
Reply to: Message 519 by AZPaul3
06-22-2019 6:23 AM


Re: The Evidence Is The Believers Themselves
So I'm this evll person who is madly in love with an evll doctrine. Wow. I don't even know what you are talking about, and I doubt even you know.
ABE: It seems to be the mind set of the day though. Trump is totally innocent, hasn't done any of the things he's accused of, but your side of the political divide makes him out to be worse than the worst murderous despot in history. It's hard to fathom. Not liking him I get, he blunders a lot, but that's not evll. He has the true American perspective, the America I love, good America, America that does no intentional harm and is a sacrificial helper of other nations.
And Christianity is what brought civilized behavior to the world.
It is painful to hear goodness vilified.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 519 by AZPaul3, posted 06-22-2019 6:23 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 521 by PaulK, posted 06-22-2019 7:46 AM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(2)
Message 521 of 868 (855705)
06-22-2019 7:46 AM
Reply to: Message 520 by Faith
06-22-2019 7:00 AM


Re: The Evidence Is The Believers Themselves
quote:
So I'm this evll person who is madly in love with an evll doctrine. Wow. I don't even know what you are talking about, and I doubt even you know.
Let’s note the subtitle. “The Evidence is the Believers Themselves”
And as evidence, your behaviour doesn’t do your religion any credit.
quote:
It seems to be the mind set of the day though. Trump is totally innocent, hasn't done any of the things he's accused of, but your side of the political divide makes him out to be worse than the worst murderous despot in history.
Of course Trump is guilty of a lot, and your lying to defend him is just one of your many sins. But nobody has called for him to be subjected to a show trial and execution. That sort of thing comes from people like you.
But I don’t blame Christianity for you. I take your claim to be Christian as just another one of your smears.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 520 by Faith, posted 06-22-2019 7:00 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 522 by Faith, posted 06-22-2019 7:52 AM PaulK has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1464 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 522 of 868 (855707)
06-22-2019 7:52 AM
Reply to: Message 521 by PaulK
06-22-2019 7:46 AM


Re: The Evidence Is The Believers Themselves
As an accuser and killer of souls, you outdo many of your political persuasion although the ideological group as a whole is good at it. It seems to be their ONLY activity lately.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 521 by PaulK, posted 06-22-2019 7:46 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 523 by PaulK, posted 06-22-2019 8:01 AM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(2)
Message 523 of 868 (855709)
06-22-2019 8:01 AM
Reply to: Message 522 by Faith
06-22-2019 7:52 AM


Re: The Evidence Is The Believers Themselves
Just more proof of my point.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 522 by Faith, posted 06-22-2019 7:52 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 524 by Faith, posted 06-22-2019 10:43 AM PaulK has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1464 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 524 of 868 (855716)
06-22-2019 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 523 by PaulK
06-22-2019 8:01 AM


Re: The Evidence Is The Believers Themselves
And that is proof of what *I* said.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 523 by PaulK, posted 06-22-2019 8:01 AM PaulK has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 525 of 868 (855733)
06-22-2019 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 515 by ringo
06-21-2019 12:24 PM


Re: The Evidence Is The Believers Themselves
ringo writes:
If something is not evident, how can you know whether it exists or not?"
And this gets back to our old argument about how evidence is defined. You used to irately ask me how I had the gall to make up my own definition, so I'll elaborate here:
Google Dictionary writes:
noun evidence
1) the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.
2)information given personally, drawn from a document, or in the form of material objects, tending or used to establish facts in a legal investigation or admissible as testimony in court.
proof confirmation verification substantiation corroboration affirmation authentication attestation documentation support for backing for reinforcement for grounds for testimony statement sworn statement attestation declaration avowal plea submission claim contention charge allegation deposition representation affidavit asseveration averment
signs or indications of something.
signs indications pointers marks traces suggestions hints manifestation
verb
verb evidence 3rd person present evidences past tense evidenced past participle evidenced gerund or present participle evidencing
be or show evidence of.
indicate show reveal be evidence of display exhibit manifest denote evince signify testify to attest to verify confirm prove substantiate endorse back up support bear out give credence to

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile

This message is a reply to:
 Message 515 by ringo, posted 06-21-2019 12:24 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 527 by ringo, posted 06-22-2019 12:58 PM Phat has replied

  
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