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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6012
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 721 of 2483 (855781)
06-23-2019 12:05 AM
Reply to: Message 714 by Theodoric
06-22-2019 10:33 PM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
What do you think happened to all of those people?

Most of them died from disease they had no immunity to.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 714 by Theodoric, posted 06-22-2019 10:33 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 725 by Dredge, posted 06-23-2019 12:15 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded
 Message 733 by Theodoric, posted 06-23-2019 9:03 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 162 days)
Posts: 1291
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 722 of 2483 (855782)
06-23-2019 12:05 AM
Reply to: Message 715 by Theodoric
06-22-2019 10:35 PM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
Theodoric writes:

A lot of the genocide was done in the name of christianity. Missions were responsible of millions of dead natives.


You forgot to mention the peace between previously warring tribes that Christianity brought. I recently watched an interview with an old native in PNG. He described life before Christianity came as never-ending battles with neighbouring tribes. "Now, we don't fight anymore, because we're all Christian brothers", he said. This "peace effect" is evident in many other cultures where the gospel has been preached and accepted.

Christians (the English) also eradicated many barbaric practices in India during the colonial era.

Did you notice how all the colonising nations were Christian? God used colonisation to spread the gospel. "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" - Matt 28:19. It's interesting that it was the Marxists (read: atheists) of the world who united to bring the colonial era to an end - sign of the times, I'm afraid.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 715 by Theodoric, posted 06-22-2019 10:35 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 724 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-23-2019 12:13 AM Dredge has responded
 Message 734 by Theodoric, posted 06-23-2019 9:47 AM Dredge has responded

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 162 days)
Posts: 1291
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 723 of 2483 (855783)
06-23-2019 12:12 AM
Reply to: Message 719 by Theodoric
06-22-2019 11:06 PM


Re: Can we at least get the history correct.
The Catholic Encyclopedia also considers the Crusades as lasting to at least the fifteenth century.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 719 by Theodoric, posted 06-22-2019 11:06 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 735 by Theodoric, posted 06-23-2019 10:05 AM Dredge has not yet responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6012
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


(2)
Message 724 of 2483 (855784)
06-23-2019 12:13 AM
Reply to: Message 722 by Dredge
06-23-2019 12:05 AM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
Did you notice how all the colonising nations were Christian? God used colonisation to spread the gospel.

Yeah, spreading the gospel and disease and displacement and destruction. Theo is making it seem as if Christians can do no right, but you seem to be doing just as much whitewashing and assuming that "spreading the gospel" and colonization is morally justified. You know, you can defend the gospel without having to defend every misguided deed under that same banner. Why would you even try to when some of it was patently odious?


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 722 by Dredge, posted 06-23-2019 12:05 AM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 727 by Dredge, posted 06-23-2019 12:32 AM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 736 by Theodoric, posted 06-23-2019 10:09 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 162 days)
Posts: 1291
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 725 of 2483 (855785)
06-23-2019 12:15 AM
Reply to: Message 721 by Hyroglyphx
06-23-2019 12:05 AM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
Hyroglyphx writes:

Most of them died from disease they had no immunity to.


Theordoric probably believes a "Jesus germ" was responsible.

Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 721 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-23-2019 12:05 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 737 by Theodoric, posted 06-23-2019 10:10 AM Dredge has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4977
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.9


(3)
Message 726 of 2483 (855786)
06-23-2019 12:30 AM
Reply to: Message 717 by Dredge
06-22-2019 11:00 PM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
Still trying to excuse the oceans of blood of slaughtered innocents murdered by your creed. And using other slaughters as a justification.

Sick.

Just like the commies your legacy is war, torture and death. You should be treated in like manner, reviled by humanity, ostracized from society.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 717 by Dredge, posted 06-22-2019 11:00 PM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 728 by Dredge, posted 06-23-2019 12:44 AM AZPaul3 has responded
 Message 730 by Dredge, posted 06-23-2019 1:06 AM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 162 days)
Posts: 1291
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 727 of 2483 (855787)
06-23-2019 12:32 AM
Reply to: Message 724 by Hyroglyphx
06-23-2019 12:13 AM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
Christian colonization did much more good than harm. How would like your daughter to be sacrificed to the Aztec sun god?

Are you blaming the disease that decimated the native americans on Christianity? You believe in the "Jesus germ" too?

Now that colonization has ended in Africa, hundreds of thousands of Africans risk their lives every year trying to enter Europe illegally. Why? Because their respective "liberated" nations have descended into chaos and they desperately want to live in the safe and prosperous nations of their former colonial masters. I recently heard that many of these fleeing Africans have begun entering the US via Mexico, instead of Europe.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 724 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-23-2019 12:13 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 729 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-23-2019 12:51 AM Dredge has responded

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 162 days)
Posts: 1291
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 728 of 2483 (855788)
06-23-2019 12:44 AM
Reply to: Message 726 by AZPaul3
06-23-2019 12:30 AM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
AZPaul3 writes:

Still trying to excuse the oceans of blood of slaughtered innocents murdered by your creed. And using other slaughters as a justification.
Sick.

Just like the commies your legacy is war, torture and death. You should be treated in like manner, reviled by humanity, ostracized from society.


Well ranted, Little AntiChrist!

"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! ... Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the Lord of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel." (Isaiah 5:20-24)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 726 by AZPaul3, posted 06-23-2019 12:30 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 746 by AZPaul3, posted 06-23-2019 3:10 PM Dredge has responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6012
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 729 of 2483 (855789)
06-23-2019 12:51 AM
Reply to: Message 727 by Dredge
06-23-2019 12:32 AM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
Christian colonization did much more good than harm. How would like your daughter to be sacrificed to the Aztec sun god?

Did it? How exactly do you propose we quantify that which remains unseen?

Are you blaming the disease that decimated the native americans on Christianity? You believe in the "Jesus germ" too?

No, I was answering Theo's very specific question. He asked how most native's died. It was not from open warfare it was from pestilence. But it was an unintended consequence from European expansion. Europeans gave them Smallpox, Natives gave Europeans Syphilis.

Now that colonization has ended in Africa, hundreds of thousands of Africans risk their lives every year trying to enter Europe illegally. Why? Because their respective "liberated" nations have descended into chaos and they desperately want to live in the safe and prosperous nations of their former colonial masters. I recently heard that many of these fleeing Africans have begun entering the US via Mexico, instead of Europe.

You know, your version of Christianity is suspiciously dressed up as Eurocentric racism. Probably 40% the continent of Africa identifies as "Christian" so if its not as prosperous as Europe, which is now predominantly secular, then you are in fact not making a compelling case for Christianity, its relevance, or its importance.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 727 by Dredge, posted 06-23-2019 12:32 AM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 738 by Theodoric, posted 06-23-2019 10:15 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded
 Message 751 by Dredge, posted 06-23-2019 8:32 PM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 753 by Dredge, posted 06-23-2019 9:01 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 162 days)
Posts: 1291
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 730 of 2483 (855790)
06-23-2019 1:06 AM
Reply to: Message 726 by AZPaul3
06-23-2019 12:30 AM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
Oh, I nearly forgot ... as well as the hundreds of millions killed by Communism, we have to add the hundreds of millions of human lives snuffed out by that other atheist factory of death - abortion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 726 by AZPaul3, posted 06-23-2019 12:30 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 747 by AZPaul3, posted 06-23-2019 3:31 PM Dredge has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7617
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 731 of 2483 (855791)
06-23-2019 4:02 AM
Reply to: Message 709 by Dredge
06-22-2019 8:08 PM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
Dredge writes:

Sorry, but you're wrong. Your interpretation of this word in this context implies a childishly superficial, uninformed, not to mention illogical, understanding of the Bible. A few verses later (v. 21) God describes himself as "a righteous God". So how can God be both "evil' and "righteous"? And how is that this “evil” God continually condemns and punishes evil, but praises and rewards good throughout the Bible?

Thanks for the apologetics.

The problem you have is that the bible - which is an edited collection of many myths by unknown authors over thousands of years - contradicts itself all over the place even in the heavily redacted form we have today. This requires 'reading in context', 'interpreting' and having its 'truths' revealed to suitably trained shaman. All very convenient and makes it possible to believe what you like - hence the 30,000 different Christian sects each with their own 'truth'.

But in the end it is what it is, simple stories for simple people.

Which Catholic teaching says people who have never heard the Christian message are going to hell? I'm unaware of such a teaching. In fact, I don't know of any Catholic teaching that says "So-and-so is going to hell." The Catholic Church teaches the reality of hell, but as far as I know, doesn't make any official judgements about who is going there.

Catholics teach all sorts of things dependent on their mood.

Like almost all religions their main line is that only their beliefs get you into heaven and they tell you that only those that are baptised as Catholics can enter heaven. Where do the rest go then? Traditionally this is hell.

They invented two other places - Limbo, for unbaptised babies that are otherwise without sin. (Hilariously they're currently backtracking on this one because in several third world countries with high infant mortality, mothers would rather not sign up for that so they're losing converts to their Muslim competition who don't have that evil idea.)

They also invented Purgatory, a kind of punishment waiting room for Heaven. This one is really convenient because in return for cash you could get time off in Purgatory by buying 'indulgences' from your priest. Plenary indulgences were the best - getting you directly into heaven, but of course they cost more. The Catholic empire was built with this cash. It was a great scam and still exists today - you can get indulgences for doing all sorts of things.

This is because only God knows who is going go hell.

Oh, you'll find there are millions of people who know who are and who aren't going to hell.

Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 709 by Dredge, posted 06-22-2019 8:08 PM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 802 by Dredge, posted 06-25-2019 11:16 PM Tangle has not yet responded
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Phat
Member
Posts: 13920
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 732 of 2483 (855795)
06-23-2019 7:02 AM
Reply to: Message 499 by ringo
06-02-2019 2:37 PM


rringo writes:

Eating the fruit made Adam and Eve more like God. He said so Himself.

Uh huh. Lets how about I??? fOCUS.

Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 499 by ringo, posted 06-02-2019 2:37 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 733 of 2483 (855800)
06-23-2019 9:03 AM
Reply to: Message 721 by Hyroglyphx
06-23-2019 12:05 AM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
That was one of the tools of the genocide.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 721 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-23-2019 12:05 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


(1)
Message 734 of 2483 (855803)
06-23-2019 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 722 by Dredge
06-23-2019 12:05 AM


Re: Topic Summary According to Thugzy
You forgot to mention the peace between previously warring tribes that Christianity brought.

You have no evidence to support this assertion like you never have any evidence. The Native American people were not constantly warring, stone age people prior to European contact. There were quite a few advanced civilizations at the time of contact. The reason why people think the natives were small, stone age tribes is because that was the remnants left after disease swept through. There was no christian "peace effect". From the very beginning the europeans used tensions to get certain groups to fight and kill others. Read histories of the eradication of the Aztecs, Incans and tribes in contact with the English. Europeans did not bring peace to the Americas.
Here is a list of pre-columbian cultures in the Americas. Not brutal, constantly warring people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pre-Columbian_cultures

Christians (the English) also eradicated many barbaric practices in India during the colonial era.

Examples please.
Did you notice how all the colonising nations were Christian?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel
Explains the luck of Europe in that time period. But you seem to be discounting the expansion of Islam at that time.

The death of the colonial era was not brought about by communism. That is a stupid comment. Colonizing ended because there were no more places to colonize and the colonized people resisted and fought back. Your hardon for the period of colonization just shows your moral depravity.

Edited by Theodoric, : Spelling


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 722 by Dredge, posted 06-23-2019 12:05 AM Dredge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 885 by Dredge, posted 06-30-2019 12:31 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 735 of 2483 (855805)
06-23-2019 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 723 by Dredge
06-23-2019 12:12 AM


Re: Can we at least get the history correct.
Again I already discussed this. The Catholic Encyclopedia acknowledges and supports the point I made.

quote:
It has been customary to describe the Crusades as eight in number:
  • the first, 1095-1101;
  • the second, headed by Louis VII, 1145-47;
  • the third, conducted by Philip Augustus and Richard Coeur-de-Lion , 1188-92;
  • the fourth, during which Constantinople was taken, 1204;
  • the fifth, which included the conquest of Damietta, 1217;
  • the sixth, in which Frederick II took part (1228-29); also Thibaud de Champagne and Richard of Cornwall (1239);
  • the seventh, led by St. Louis, 1249-52;
  • the eighth, also under St. Louis , 1270.
This division is arbitrary and excludes many important expeditions, among them those of the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries. In reality the Crusades continued until the end of the seventeenth century, the crusade of Lepanto occurring in 1571, that of Hungary in 1664, and the crusade of the Duke of Burgundy to Candia, in 1669. A more scientific division is based on the history of the Christian settlements in the East.

https://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=3543
The term Crusades encompasses different things to different historians. If you read the wiki article completely instead of scanning for sentences that support you, you will see that the term traditionally covers the campaigns to free the holy land from the Islam. Traditionally that has been accounted to have ended with the fall of the last Outremer Crusader state, Acre, in 1291.
Other military actions have been called Crusades, but in context of this thread they are not relevant. Later crusades were against heretics and or christianizing pagan areas of Europe. Any other crusades against Islam were in actuality minor campaigns against the Ottomans in which spreading christianity was either a minor part or non existent part of the reason for the campaign.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 723 by Dredge, posted 06-23-2019 12:12 AM Dredge has not yet responded

  
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